Tuesday, March 26, 2013

Your C-Card

When I was a lad in the late 1980s, when we had to start the Internet by hand with a crank every morning, the buzz around the dorms wasn't about a girl's "number", it was about her "V-card".  Her virginity.

Losing your V-card is a big deal for any young person, of course, but it means dramatically different things to young men than it does to young women.  A young woman often jealously guards it, while a young dude will be happy to give it to the first vagina who walks by -- hey, 5 times the legal limit of testosterone makes you slightly less discriminating -- who knew?  Dudes find it important, but not the same way.  We want to ditch that V-Card ASAP, preferably to someone hot, slutty, intense, knowledgeable, and from someplace far away where she can't disagree with how great it was.

For a dude, losing your V-Card is like signing your Selective Service card:  It's something you need to do, and once it's done you can move on with your life a little wiser, a little closer to being a man.

While I'm not as heavy on virginity as a prerequisite for love or marriage as the Christian end of the Manosphere, or even Athol's reasonable "Try to marry a virgin or as close to virgin as possible" advice, I'm not going to deny that a girl's V-Card is a highly emotionally significant issue to her.  How and why she loses it/gives it away/sells it to the highest bidder becomes an important part of who she is.  Indeed, until she gets engaged (maybe someday), has a baby (but not a husband) or completes her PhD. in Women's Studies, it's the first and last Big Thing that happens to her as an adult woman.

Of course, once gone, many women see the lack of virginity as carte blanche to enjoy the fruits of the Sexual Revolution with abandon.  I bring this up not to influence anyone in particular to do anything in particular with their hymen, either literal or spiritual.  No, I bring this up because while I believe we all understand the concept of the "V-Card", few men understand the concept of their "C-Card".

C.  For Commitment.

Before you recoil in horror at the mention of The Word That Shall Not Be Named, it's important you understand a few things about it, and about how you deal that card.  For you, it's as important as a sixteen year old girl's hymen.

Firstly, just like you wanted to ditch your V-Card ASAP to the "right girl", most women want to collect a C-Card with the "right guy" . . . but really, any ol' guy will do, at first.  Turning down a proposal of marriage is a sign of strength and notability within the Female Social Matrix, like getting hit-on by a pornstar would be for a dude (believe me, nothing gets your ego pumping like politely rejecting a pretty pornstar who has propositioned you.  It's happened a few times, and - you Gentlemen will be pleased to know - in all but one occasion, the ladies in question congratulated me on the level of respect and esteem I showed for my wife. (They did also usually show me their boobs anyway, to be fair, but it's not like I haven't seen them professionally already).)

Those who have the wit to hear and learn the Red Pill truth, attend:

Women control sex.  They have all the pussy and half the money.  Unless you want to go Lambda (and that has some advantages), you have to deal with women to have sex with another person.  Women have known that for millennia  which is why the FSM's control of sexuality is so vital to their integrity.  Just one unattached Sexually Liberated Uninhibited Tart in the village and their ability to control their husbands through sex is compromised.  One whore in town, and the nookie supply is in flux.  The classic Greek play Lysistrata demonstrates the power that women united in their control of sexuality can ostensibly wield over men.  The women want to stop a stupid war and go on a sex strike.  Hilarity ensues.

BUT . . . what women do not often understand, explicitly, is that just as they control sexMEN control
commitment.  Women can choose whether or not to offer us sex, and just what kind and how much.  They can NOT choose to offer us a commitment we have to take seriously.  Don't believe me?  Then why in a world where feminism has run-amuck are even hardcore feminists reluctant to break the social taboo of women proposing?

Because they know what would happen if they did.  Even a rational, level-headed egalitarian feminist in a relationship understands that while men and women might be "equal", the social shame and humiliation she would face by having to ask herself - and then the ignomy if her proposal was rejected (what are the odds?) - is such that a female-led proposal of commitment is as undesirable as a dude who's first line after introducing himself is "Hey, wannafuck?"

Among non-feminist or feminist-light women?  Forgetaboutit.  If a woman has to propose to a man, then there is something wrong with one or both of them.  No, women have to just sit there and wait for you to escalate the relationship.  They might try to encourage you with a number of incremental "mission creeps", but they can't actually make you their boyfriend/fiancee/husband without your permission.  I looked it up.

Most of women realize (and the FSM instructs) that men get skittish if you come on too strong and even mention commitment too soon in a courtship.  It's as tricky as just when to agree to sex.  A chick who slips an "after we get married" comment in on a third date is  as doomed as a dude who asks about anal on the first.  There's a time and place for everything folks, and while you might get lucky and get precisely the answer you're looking for ("Married?  How's next Thursday sound?", "Anal?  I thought you'd never ask!"), more than likely you're just crashing and burning.

Its common knowledge that women are naturally reluctant to be free with sex and men are reluctant to agree to a commitment.  It's implicit to the concept of Body Agenda.  But despite ample exceptions to both rules,  both parties measure the suitability of the other in part on how they express those desires.  I'm not breaking new ground here.  The difference is that women usually do understand (via the FSM's two-tiered, subtextual communication system) the ground rules for sex.  Men in general have no real understanding about commitment . . . until it's too late.

While men can force women (and other men) into sex against their will, it is exceedingly difficult to force men into commitment against their will.  Indeed, women cannot proceed to a commitment without your willing consent.  In the past that has been manipulated through pregnancy tests, shotguns, and uneasy crossings of state lines by moonlight, but in most cases a couple can't be married unless the man in question has actively consented.  Given up his big C-Card, as it were.

And like virginity (theoretically), you can only give up that big card once.  Thing is, you have no idea just how important that card is to the woman in your life.  Once you understand that YOU control commitment, then you gain power.  You gain hand.  But it doesn't end there.

You see, there are degrees of C-Cards, just like there are degrees of V-Cards ("Twenty-two blowjobs and two anal encounters, but I'm still a virgin!"). Marriage is, of course, the biggie. But it's just the last spot on the ticket to get punched.  Your C-Card usually gets punched more gradually than her V-Card (after she loses it, it becomes her "N-Card", but we'll still call it the V-Card.  I'm sure you can think of a handy mnemonic), and sometimes it can get punched without you even realizing it.

First Love

The first box to be punched on that card is the "first love", usually a high-school or college girl who touched your junk (or maybe more) for the first time causing your hormones to fall in love with her in a fit of undying gratitude.  Oh, you might pin it to your "first kiss", or your first real date, but it's all just romantic infatuation until the penis gets involved.  When she touched your dick for the first time, you were in First Love, whether you knew it or not.  Don't dismiss the power of First Love/first handjob in a man's mind lightly.  Hell, James Joyce built a career on it.

You usually let her punch that "first love" ticket on your C-Card, and you gave your heart to her whether she was worthy or not (usually the latter).

If it was more than a long weekend or a couple of days, then you may move up a notch.  Luckily, the "First Love" punch is almost a freebie.  Very rarely does that turn into a legitimate commitment, unless intercourse and pregnancy get involved.  But you only get one.


The second punch on that ticket is "girlfriend".  That's a big one on the C-Card, especially the first time, and this day and age you usually get anywhere from 7 to 10 of these before you seriously consider progressing.

This spot on the card was really developed in the post-WWII 1950s, the Archie/Veronica/Betty-in-Riverdale ideal.  "Going steady" originally meant that you were a girl's steady (weekly) date, the girl you experimented sexually with in the back seat of a borrowed car every weekend after working each other up in anticipation all week.

The original industrial-age protocol was to swap steady dates around through High School until people were more or less reasonably happy with their choices, looking forward to a steadily escalating exchange of sex and commitment until the Big C-Card and the Big V-Card (or a reasonable facsimile) got exchanged on the Big Day.  Then you bought a starter home, started having kids, and went to work for someone you'd retire from thirty years later.

Eventually people started smoking weed and having sex in the 1960s and your "steady" turned into your girlfriend. And that first girlfriend could be a doozy.  Sometimes (but not always) the same girl who punched your "First Love" ticket ends up checking the first "girlfriend" box on your card, and may even have the first taste of real expectation of commitment beyond bringing a corsage to Prom to a woman, so pay attention carefully.  I've known guys who -- through no fault of their own -- ended up having a girlfriend just because they weren't paying close enough attention.  One moment you're getting your oil changed by some chick in the back seat, and the next you're going to her house for dinner to meet the parents on Saturday . . . and all you really wanted was a handjob.  Don't let this happen to you.

Basic Girlfriend

While the exact nature and expression of the Girlfriend commitment changes, there are a few fundamentals:

1) You commit to not "see other people".  You are committing to be (at least temporarily) monogamous.
2) You are both willing to tell other people of your exclusivity and even engage in acceptable PDAs.
3) You agree to spend a certain amount of time together in the pursuit of both sexual and non-sexual intimacy.
4) You agree to not openly leer or talk about other people for whom your loins may incidentally ache.
5) You agree to attend each other's non-family social events "as a couple". (we'll get to family in a minute).

Okay, that's Basic Girlfriend.  You can knock all of that out in a week or two, and still call it a relationship in this day and age.  Failure to agree to do any of the above means you haven't really handed over your C-Card -- you aren't treating her like a girlfriend, and if she calls herself that before you've granted her permission, that's potential chump-bait  (say, if she calls you her boyfriend before she's touched your junk more than once.  Arbitrary, I know, but it's a place to start the metric).

Consider any assumption of prerogatives not expressly given as a failed Fitness Test, indicating an unlikely choice for a long-term relationship.  You can safely rack up quite a few of these "shorties" without too much worry (and if they're short enough, it's likely she won't even count you toward her "number").

Beyond that, there's...

Intermediate Girlfriend

At that level, a chick who punches your C-Card has established social control over you, theoretically in exchange for increased sexual access.  It implies all of Basic Girlfriend, but includes:

1) Actual dates - social excursions designed for the sole purpose of entertaining and increasing both non-sexual and sexual intimacy.

2) A shared circle or pool of friends.  Often this is the point where a woman will start evaluating your potential for a long-term partnership and begin trying to influence your development through whom you spend your time with.  Your friends she sees as "bad influences" will be pruned from your combined social calendar, while friends she sees as good influences (say, dudes with girlfriends she can stand) are encouraged to remain.  NOTE: your girlfriend and her girlfriend will automatically form a node of the FSM, a node which they --collectively -- will try to establish control over you and the other dude -- collectively.

3) Gifts and expressions of sentiment on appropriate occasions (to be negotiated).

4) Spending the night occasionally after sex.

5) Notification of parents/Facebook that you are a couple.

6) Sharing meals together on a regular basis.

7) Daily communication.

8) She can legally keep tampons in your bathroom, in moderation.

9) Your BFFs are introduced, and then introduced to each other.  Hilarity often ensues.  Just ask Harry and Sally.

The Intermediate Girlfriend box isn't that bad, and usually begins anywhere from 2-6 weeks into a standard-issue relationship.  If you've started having sex and getting to know each others' bodies, then it's still exciting fresh and new.  The novelty and the serotonin and the vasopressin and the oxytocin create a thick, rich cocktail and her boobs look perfect and you don't even notice the annoying way she laughs.

At this point, the punches on your C-Card are still fairly innocuous and fun.  You've only committed your emotional, sexual and social life to her, nothing further (to a chick, please remember, the emotional and social enjoy a much higher value and the sex a much lower value . . . but she's usually willing to pretend otherwise -- yay, hamster!)

This is also the point where most nascent relationships begin falling apart.  Extended contact and knowledge of the other person begins to reveal flaws behind the "good girlfriend behavior".  We might start to get the first glimmerings that she is

a) a closet feminist

b) batshit crazy or

c) actively husband shopping.

In addition, by Intermediate Girlfriend you should be able to evaluate whether or not she is

a) sexually compatible,

b) socially compatible (say, if she's a racist and you aren't, might be a problem)

c) flaky as hell.

Depending on just how good the sex is, you should keep all of these in mind during the Intermediate phase and determine whether or not to abort the relationship.  Most dudes get blinded by pussy and the Blue Pill and social expectations and end up ignoring the obvious warning signs, ending up with the Hellbeast Girlfriend.  I'm not saying avoid her - she's instructional.

So is getting your assed kicked by a prison gang.

If you decide to bail, don't fret it.  Women Are Fungible.  Finding another and starting over means a brand new chance and brand new pussy and maybe a chick who's a little freakier than your last one.  You can get another girlfriend as easily as you can get another car.  But if you don't bail when the danger signs are clear, then you can expect her to make more demands on your C-Card.  And this is when things start getting bad.  This is . . .

Advanced Girlfriend

Your mileage may vary, but you can trace Advanced Girlfriend to a combination of any two of these three occurrences: Meeting the parents/siblings; going on a multi-day trip alone as a couple, or attending any wedding together as a couple.  Any one of these, and you're in danger of getting your AG box punched.  Any combination and . . . dude, you got a serious girlfriend.  Says so right on your C-Card.  You either accept that, or you find a graceful way to bail ("Your parents are LUTHERAN?  Die, blasphemer!" often works).  Of course, even if you avoid the above, if you celebrate your One Year Anniversary, you've got a bad case of Advanced Girlfriend.

AG comes with a whole lot of baggage.  Sexual, social, personal, psychological, if  you leave a relationship any time before this box gets punched you have a reasonable hope of bouncing back and recovering fairly quickly.  But the longer a girl has your AG box punched, the more and greater the expectations.

From her perspective, if she's introduced you to her parents and they actually like you, you went to a wedding and danced with her and looked half-way decent in a tux, and you made it for three days at that run-down Bed & Breakfast in the Catskills without killing each other (you might have gotten anal as a reward for your good behavior - and if you didn't, take that into consideration.)  If you passed all three of those tests, then you have Serious Boyfriend Potential, and her pursuit of your C-Card begins in earnest.

Serious Girlfriend

The Serious Girlfriend box gets checked on your card about the Year Three mark, and/or your decision for real.
to cohabitate.  A live-in boyfriend is a test run for a more permanent relationship.  It's also the point at which the wise Red Pill man starts vetting his girlfriend

It's not all-bad.  Some dudes see Serious Girlfriend as a safe spot between Hopelessly Single and Married.  And this is where most dudes start pressing the serious sexual stuff.  Because while she's starting to think about wedding locations and honeymoon destinations, you're thinking about anal, oral, and what her sister looks like naked in your imagination.  By this point, you probably already know what she will and won't do in bed, and what she does and doesn't like.  You might be wrong, but you know.  And you should be getting laid like a champ for a while, too, as your SG tries to upgrade her spot on your C-Card.

This is usually where the gloves come off sexually, too.  During the evaluation-and-vetting period, you've got to establish if she's going to be sexually-compatible long-term.  You have to settle the issue of kids.  You have to determine future birth-control options.  And you have to decide if you really can stand hitting just that one pussy for the rest of your life.  So think about this carefully.  Then think about it some more.

At the SG point, many of the mundane domestic matters have already been settled.  The toilet seat question, the grocery-and-cooking question, the housework question, the religion question, the social issues, and the day-to-day minutia of a relationship have been gone over exhaustively, and you still haven't broken up.  During the SG phase, this is where you turn up the heat before proceeding any further.  Despite its name, SG is the last step you have before the serious commitment phase.  Use it wisely.

I'll cover good vetting and wife-testing in future posts, but for now just assume that you have assembled your list and have begun figuring out whether she's going to work out, long-term.  While three years might SEEM long-term, the fact is it's the minimum time I would spend investigating and vetting any woman who wasn't a brilliant, independently wealthy "10" with incurable nymphomania and an oral fixation.  For at least a year, you need to put this woman through her paces and challenge her, observing and noting every reaction to adversity or provocation.

But your serious vetting shouldn't go more than two years.  If you don't know by your fifth anniversary, then you really DO know, and just don't want to admit it.  If she passes the tests (and you pass yours) then you can consider proceeding to the next box on your C-card: Engagement.


This is the Penultimate Step.  The second-to-last box on your C-Card.  Fuck this part up, and you're going miserable.
to be

The Fiancee stage comes (ideally) when you have decided to offer a woman a pledge of open-ended commitment.  It's stating your intent to be with her for the rest of her life.  It's not a "celebration of your love", it's the point at which you've agreed on general terms, and now it's time to begin the negotiation process for permanent status.

Once you give a girl an engagement ring, they're notoriously hard to get back.  But it's still a pencilled-in commitment, with no real legs in court ("breach of promise" notwithstanding, thanks to feminism).  You still have the power to end the relationship at any time and clear your C-Card.

Fiancee is where you decide between the two of you the Big Questions: where shall we live, what jobs should we have, how many children and should they be raised Jewish, dog or cat, whose parents get Christmas and whose get Christmas Eve, live tree or artificial tree, blinds or curtains, etc. etc.  These are Advanced Domestic Issues, and they need to be settled.  The Fiancee slot is where you start consciously knitting your family cultures together.  That's not always easy.  Hell, it's never easy, unless you marry an orphan (HIGHLY recommended . . .).

But a wise man doesn't proceed to this step unless he has already assured himself that he will not regret it.  And that means either doing a whole lot of vetting or a whole lot of luck.  While the latter is nicer to have, it's harder to come by.

The process of vetting your future spouse is worthy not just of another post, but of another entire book.  Let's just pretend you've done all that, and you are certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that this woman is The One, or at least A Real Good One, and you feel comfortable taking that last step, the last box on your C-Card save death: Marriage.

(First) Wife

This is the big one.  This is the point past which no man may tread lightly.  When you put a ring on it, you're legally becoming one person with your wife.  There are sacred obligations implicit with the office, and while technically you can "go back" and un-punch your WIFE box, the process is painful and expensive -- akin to a woman having her hymen surgically re-attached.

Wives can be your greatest joy or your greatest curse, the reason you go to bed every night and get out of bed every morning . . . or the reason why you hide in the bathroom, masturbating gloomily.  They can watch your back and make your bed, or they can sabotage your plans and spend your bread.  Letting someone get that far up your C-Card who doesn't respect the measure of commitment implied in marriage is a recipe for chaos and disaster.

Second Wife

Unless you're a widower, remarrying is nothing less than the victory of optimism over experience.  Yet many
men find wonderful partnerships in their second wives for a number of reasons.  Honestly, the man I know who historically was most down on marriage after his divorce is now blissfully happy with a woman sixteen years his junior.  He claims his earlier screeds against the institution were based on a poor selection sample.  His second wife was vetted far more thoroughly than his first, and being older and presumably wiser my friend had a much better idea about what he wanted in a wife . . . as opposed to what he wanted in a girlfriend.

But other second marriages are no better than first marriages, and sometimes far worse.  The native enthusiasm and tenacity you had with your first wife are broken -- you know for a fact that things can go horribly wrong, and the ideal of True Love is no longer the untarnished trophy you once thought. Age and desperation also play a role.  My grandfather remarried a few years before his death, and while the two of them got along great while he was alive, I cannot help but wonder what would have happened had he lived far longer with her.


That's your C-Card, Gentlemen.  From First Love to Second Wife and beyond, your commitment level is the biggest card you have in your hand when you meet a woman.  Sex is easy -- she can get it anywhere.  But a woman who craves commitment (and a thunderous majority do) the way you crave cooze is just as determined to get it from you as you are determined to relieve her of her virtue.  Of course, the old-style exchange of sex-for-security no longer applies, strictly speaking, but even in our post-industrial civilization commitment is still coin-of-the realm in the Female Social Matrix.

The important things to take away from this are the following: a woman who is a great girlfriend does not necessarily make a great fiance or wife.  And a woman who will be an ideal wife may be a mediocre girlfriend.  But as you contemplate expanding your commitment with the woman in your life, be mindful of the pros and cons of such a move.  I would no better counsel my sons to propose marriage on early acquaintance (say, anything under three years of courtship and vetting) than I would condoning my daughter having sex without thought of consequence.

The 21st century Red Pill gentleman will understand the role that his C-Card plays in motivating the women in his life, and he will play that card very cautiously, appreciating it for the treasure it is. When he is too eager to turn it over to a woman, it's usually because of sex in some form or fashion -- which is ironic, because with an open C-card, a dude with Game can get sex in part on the basis of his open card.

The value of your C-card to any particular woman is going to be variable, of course, and some will judge you harshly because of it.  A long history of short relationships is going to be a red flag for all but the horniest ovulating women -- and those ladies are going to be convinced they can fuck you into it, if they tried hard enough.

Be a sport.  Let them try.

But hold onto your C-card like its the One Ring, and be as stingy as possible with it.  Why?  Because men who are too willing to commit too early raise red flags with women too, just  like a woman who sleeps with a dude on the first date raises red flags with men.  If you do not value your C-Card for what it is -- your Precious -- and are liberal with how you commit, you lower your own value.  And the lower you value yourself, the lower the women you meet value you.

It is hard, but it pays off.  The more you value your C-card, the higher value you have.  And the more you bring to the table as a potential husband, the higher value your C-card has.  That means having higher standards in the early days, and keeping to them later on.  That means considering and reconsidering the situation seriously before being willing to even be called someone's "boyfriend".  That means understanding that your ability to make a woman a wife is one of your most desirable characteristics (after wealth and power), even more important than the size of your dick.  That means breaking an engagement (or postponing it) if you are not absolutely happy with how things are going.

Men are not taught to value their own commitment, not overtly.  Of course, when society values their commitment less, men tend to downgrade their commitment value as well.  The advent and popularity of divorce culture has cheapened the very meaning of a marital commitment in most men's eyes, as demonstrated by the plummeting marriage rates and the higher median age of first marriages.  Why take the risk your girlfriend will be a bad wife or a future ex-wife, when you can just break up, move on, and get another girlfriend?  The C-card lets you do that.  Don't leave home without it.

The other piece of good news is that your SM value naturally rises over time, and the value of your C-card goes up as you become more and more successful.  Again, most men have no idea that a 40 year old single man with a job and a car and a roof over his head is actually a HUGE catch, compared to the alternatives in the Puerarchy.  He might feel utterly inadequate about it, and some are quite mystified how it happens, but a middle-aged man who has conserved his C-card wisely is gold bullion to the commitment-starved women in America.

Gentlemen, be aware and mindful of your C-card status.  Don't pretend that this shit happens "naturally", that you'll propose when you know the time is right (but not necessarily the woman).  Dangle that C-card over her head until she demonstrates her true colors, and then decide whether or not to let her punch it . . . or to move on to someone with better prospects.


  1. "For a dude, losing your V-Card is like signing your Selective Service card: It's something you need to do, and once it's done you can move on with your life a little wiser, a little closer to being a man."

    Fuck that shit. And I'm not talking about losing your V-card.

    1. This may not sound fair, because it’s not

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      It will send a shockwave of desire for you straight to his brain and he will HAVE to have you.

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  2. I'm not going to deny that a girl's V-Card is a highly emotionally significant issue to her.

    I'm sorry, is there some issue out there that isn't highly emotionally significant to women?

  3. Solid. I'm 40 with open C card. But my options seem to be between "dating" (banging) 20-somethings going through those cute-to-annoying stages of trying (and largely failing) to be a grown-up human being and "dating" (banging and listening to self-absorbed tales of awesomeness) jaded 30-somethings who have spent a decade falling on their backs and traveling. Travel is Awesome!!

    My desire to marry is burning off quickly. So while my C card might be great currency in terms of access to sex, that gold bullion is rather illiquid when it comes to finding a worthy counter-party to that trade called marriage. Interestingly on whole it seems that the N-racking women are greatly outpacing their C-racking male counterparts, IOW the slut-trend is exploding but the commitment-slut males are waning - which is of course due to women dropping the price of sex to near zero. A concept that they fail to understand either individually or collectively. I expect the male shaming ("Man up") to continue to escalate as men like me bow out of the marriage market entirely. Gone fishin'.

  4. Alright, so maybe I'm unclear on where the line is drawn between "husband-shopping" and purposeful dating. My understanding was that the former is a huge turn off for men ("I just want to be maaaaarried!"), but the latter is a rather respectable life choice (maintaining a low number, and being very selective in who you date). Where is the boundary between the two? For example, if after a month or so of dating a guy asks me why I'm dating, and I say, honestly, "I'm looking for someone to spend the next few years adventuring with, and really getting to know, and eventually marrying to have a family." Which category does that fall into?

    1. That seems completely respectable to me.

  5. Ian, just wanted to say I saw your comments about marrying over at RoK and although I agreed with them, you have to realize you will never "get through" to those knuckleheads.

    I'm all for men (and women) living their lives whichever way they want to as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else (especially me), but the "loser guys" at the blog fail to realize that their dream fantasy of living a life alone as a single man in some avant-garde bachelor pad in the hippest part of town, or being financially free enough to globe-trot for several decades getting their "flags" from over 50 countries until settling down with a 22 year old submissive Asian virgin so she can nurse and take care of them right before getting a terminal illness at the age of 80 is 1,000% unattainable.

    The best these average and below average regular Joe's can hope for is that another average or below average regular Jane will find them worthy of her life long loyalty and commitment.

    And that life long loyalty and commitment, being so rare in a nation with a 50% divorce rate, is really quite a gem. The Hope Diamond, in fact.

    These guys will not ever "spin plates" or build "soft harems". Rather than put time, money and energy into something that IS actually plausible, a relationship with 1 woman, they are wasting away their youth by reading and commenting on these blogs all day. In the past 3 years or more they have been doing this they could have already found their equal or slightly lower in the "sexual market place" and started building a life with her.

    This pair bonding is the only way for them to ever gain access to the full range of human emotions and experience the love, affection, respect and worth that is so missing in their lives now.

    Nothing is more fulfilling than seeing such pair bonding in it full glory.

    I just returned from a seminar/workshop held by a husband-wife team. Their affection for each other was evident in the way they joked and flirted with each during the seminar, and the way they seamed the threads of each others strengths and abilities into a Persian carpet of pristine presentation for us, the audience, who found them a pure pleasure to behold.

    Two of their 4 children were present in the audience and they wove themselves in and out of the tapestry, sometimes helping their parents with demonstrations, sometimes taking to the mic to explain simple concepts, and sometimes sitting amongst the audience to listen attentively to what their parents had to say and learn as they go.

    Will these "loser guys" of the Manosphere who spend their days reading fake accounts from other guys about "pussy slaying" ever get to conduct such an orchestra of mastery?

    Will they ever get to know what it feels like to experience symbiotic synergy with their feminine counterpart and the physical manifestation of that synergy (their offspring)?

    Will they ever know what it means to be so united with another human being that their goals become her goals? Her accomplishments become their accomplishments? Their emotional states become her emotional states?

    Will they ever know what it is like to create something bigger than the two of them combined, by combining with her?


    What a waste of human life.

    1. Dude! Thank you. I have had similar feelings about the so-called "manosphere" for quite a while now. It mostly seems like a bunch of guys who can't get laid going on their computers and whining about girls that can get laid. Sure, there are a lot of shitty women in America. But the fact that I've been in relationships with more than one quality girl in America (have had a couple bad eggs, too) indicates there are plenty to be had if you just look.

    2. "It mostly seems like a bunch of guys who can't get laid going on their computers and whining about girls that can get laid."

      Stop. You have blown pretty much all of your credibility right there. If that's your assessment of the Manosphere, then you are undereducated, and probably should speak no more on the matter until you have studied the subject more fully.

      And as far as quality girls, the fact that you did not stick with one indicates that they are, in fact, in far less supply than you indicate. There are not "plenty". They are very few and far between, and a man of quality should not be fooled by those who can imitate quality or distract with glamour. True quality demonstrates itself . . . and if you possesses the same quality, then you do not let it get away from you when you see it.

    3. It's not a waste of human life, Priya, it is a perfectly legitimate response to current mating conditions. When faced with the choice between an unhappy union seemingly doomed to failure, and a life lived alone and childless, the odds favor the fortunes of the latter for most men. Social conditions have degraded to the point where lives of quiet solitude spent on the computer are in a man's better interest than a string of ex-wives, step-children, bitter ex-girlfriends, and humiliating social consequences.

      That's not their fault. They weren't raised right. Someone went and tried to eliminate the guiding influence of fatherhood over the last 40 years in American society and replace it with flawed ideology and good intentions...and the intentions weren't always that good. And along the way, someone told women that abusing men and masculinity was a great way to get on our good side. Seems some misinformation got loose.

      But my biggest gripe with your comment is actually about "loser guys" and "fake" accounts. I've been investigating the Manosphere, its bloggers, and Game for over two years now. It ain't fake. Game works. These guys aren't lying about the women they are seducing; if anything, they are understating it. You can pretend that they are making all of this shit up out of spite or malice, but the cold, hard fact of the matter is that their observations are valid and insightful perspectives on a very serious problem, and they represent a growing social segment that is HIGHLY interested in these issues.

      So I'd back off the "loser" comments. These dudes aren't losers. But if you want to underestimate them, they don't mind one bit.

    4. In response to Ian at 5:16pm.

      "Stop. You have blown pretty much all of your credibility right there."

      Eh, perhaps. I realize that was kind of a low blow there. But yea, it's been something that has bugged me recently.

      "If that's your assessment of the Manosphere, then you are undereducated, and probably should speak no more on the matter until you have studied the subject more fully."

      There's lots of decent information out there, and your blog is definitely one of those sources. But when you go into the comments sections, particularly on CH and RooshV, that's honestly what it looks like to me.

      "And as far as quality girls, the fact that you did not stick with one indicates that they are, in fact, in far less supply than you indicate."

      Not necessarily. Sometimes people just aren't compatible. I moved in with one, and it turned out there were just too many differences in our upbringings that we would never be able to get along together as a functional co-habiting couple. Doesn't have anything to do with her quality.

      "There are not "plenty". They are very few and far between,"

      Well it's a matter of perspective. %0.01 of 100 million is 10,000. Even if they are few and far between, there can still be "plenty," because there are TONS of women out there.

    5. Another response to Ian at 5:16pm.

      After poking around here a bit more, I predict our biggest disagreement in terms of "quality" will have to do with promiscuity. I have no problem deeming a girl with 20+ partners or what-have-you as "quality." Some girls have slept around a lot and are still fully capable of having a loving, committed relationship. In fact, sometimes they are better. I've been with a girl that had ~15 partners that was way better at handling relationships than a virgin was.

  6. So what's your message dear Priya?
    Man up and marry those sluts?

    You seem to have forgotten that most women aren't any better than the selfish young men you attack so hard.

    OK, I'll grant you that pair bonding can be a great thing, Ian has written about the bond he has with his wife, but for many men it's damn near impossible to pair bond with women who have given up their bodies too easily. You want me to risk my life on that?

    1. Anonymous, it simply isn't true that the majority of American women are promiscuous "sluts". In fact, not a small % of college students graduate virgins, and not a small % of them are women.

      Beyond that the majority of sex that is taking place in college is not from "one night stand hook ups with alpha jocks at frat parties" which is a tired Manosphere meme/myth.

      The majority of sex in college is "relationship sex" with a boyfriend/girlfriend.

      The old men of the Manosphere think that college campuses are comprised of 80% Frat bros and Soriety hos. Uh no. Greeks are a small % of college students on any campus. Moreover, not all of them are completely debauched. This is a fantasy in the minds of the old men of the Manosphere who watch too many Hollywood films.

      The vast majority of college students are non-Greeks. The vast majority are not alpha jocks and hot cheerleaders. The vast majority are average, normal young people who are not hooking up with a different partner every weekend.

      After college they go on to lead average, normal lives and continue to have sex within the confines of relationships. Again, they are not hooking up with different partners every weekend.

      The vast majority of American women and men are not promiscuous.

      My message is: stop trolling bars hoping to hook up with a hot slut for the night or thinking you are going to meet your future wife there. You might be able to do both, but chances are low so quit the bar/club scene and get involved in something outdoorsy or productive or both (like a permaculture club) where you can meet REAL PEOPLE, not your manosphere-fantasy-nightmare-stereotype.

    2. //My message is: stop trolling bars hoping to hook up with a hot slut for the night or thinking you are going to meet your future wife there.
      Priya - which is exactly the Ian's advice. "You should fish where the fish is"

      While the guys on the PUA-hookup scene remind me of an old russian joke:

      A guy goes ice-fishing (an activity in winter where you bore a fishing hole in ice and fish from it)
      He bores his first hole and sits down with a fishing rod, when a voice from above announces:
      Shocked, the man quickly picks all his stuff, moves 50 meters away and bores a second hole. Yet the voice again announces:
      More confused then shocked now, the man moves another 50 meters and bores a third hole. The voice yet again calls out to him:
      Defiant, the man calls out to the sky:
      - How can you see me and how do you know if there is any fish here or not?!

    3. Men, look at Priya's response here to understand what the next level of shaming you to commit (or give up your "C-Card" as it were) will be soon.

      It will be heavily couched in terms of NAWALT (not all women are like that -- in fact, the average isn't!), use inane philosophical jabs ("what a waste of a life") and give absolutely ZERO regard to the empirical data that shows that if you do indeed take her advice and commit to a woman, there's a 50% chance you get divorced, 70-75% of the time you won't be initiating the divorce, there's a 90% chance you lose your children, you will pay the vast majority of child support (in many instances even if the child isn't yours), with your likelihood of committing suicide in that situation increased by 4 fold (for divorced men).

      It's the average woman's response to the increasing trend of average men no longer conforming to the fairly anti-male American sexual culture that exists. And, by the way, while the "vast majority" of young women aren't sleeping around as much as some extremists claim, they do sleep around/hook up/have some form of sexual relations with far more people than Priya is suggesting, and they're not doing it with the "average man" that she sees those women eventually ending up with.

  7. While i agree it is best for a man to wait a couple of years before proposing, what if the girl is 23. Peaking, as per the manosphere, what then? Is she to wait over 3 years. She'll be 26 at least. Late 20s. Does that really make sense for her?
    If i really think i would make a good wife and mother, why shouldnt he see that within a year. I'm very worried now.

  8. Meggrz
    Don't fret it so much. The turn-off about a marriage minded woman is when it accompanies sexual price discrimination, unbridled hypergamy coupled with an inflated self-image, and the elevation of the wedding errr marriage over the specific qualities, character, and desires of the man in question. IOW, if the marriage mind suddenly happens at 30-something and she decides to get "serious" about how-when-where she "gives" sex after a decade of "fun"; if the decade of "fun" has left her with the false impression that the same men who were banging her are in her marriage league; if she is entitled to a wedding (marriage) on her schedule be dammed what her current/potential BF has in mind, then the men on the receiving end of that are going to point to her "I just want to be maaaaaried" attitude as the culprit. But in reality there is more to it that that.

    Most men want to get married. Purposeful dating by (my) definition is the path toward marriage. The "purpose" is to find the wife/husband via dating. Most men and women have the same end game, but women have derailed the end-game of the current dating market from a series of linear trajectories into marriage to a series of loops of self-indulgence and dark alleys, exploration, hedonism, and "nothing serious"-ONS-FWB and sex first, (maybe) relationship later. This has muddled both the "purpose" and the endgame. Marriage minded men in their 20's get free sex via casual/non-serious relationships with plenty of women working on their careers, grad school, or other things deemed more important than a "serious" relationship. All of this blurs the lines of what is marriage-minded as well as how the purpose of dating is executed on the ground.

    So what used to be men and woman on a fairly parallel trajectory in terms of dating is now obfuscated by a combination of: men delaying marriage, women delaying marriage, a decline in how marriage is valued, and the availability of the components of marriage (sex, emotion, resources, playing house, vacationing) as an a la carte menu within the casual dating market. Throw in the risks that men face in terms of divorce/custody laws and the delay/resistance, level of comfort with the woman, and his own position in life are factored in heavily.

    Personally, I don't know what purposeful dating would be OTHER than to find a suitable partner for marriage. But that is the problem. Women want to be able to "be like men" and date for the sake of dating, for just sex, or any other reason for an indefinite period of time - or even not "date" but just "hang out". Then they want to flip the script toward marriage, but fail to adjust their targets, account for their own value as a "wife" in the eyes of the marriage-minded men (the real targets) as opposed to a GF or a lay, and fail to accept that they will have to avoid, cut quickly, or take greater risk in terms of time in their pursuit/choice of men for dating. The fact that this is "hard" or not as "fun" is daunting. The fact that this is more like what "dating" in general is for men is also lost on most women, but that is a whole other story.

    The problem for the marriage minded women, who are actually dating in her 20's with the intent to marry, is that they don't want to accept that the vast majority of men they find attractive (and then pursue) do not (presently) share their desire or urgency to marry. Hence: she must avoid them, date them but state her purpose/desire openly and risk the end of it, or risk her valuable time in letting something casual morph into a marriage path (very rare). What happens is that those men will "date" them indefinitely, but will not commit on her terms - if at all. And then it becomes about how men fear commitment. Bam. His fault.

  9. The reality is that there is a bit of cake-eating and denial. In any case, a man that is truly married minded (and "ready") will have no problem with your stated position. It isn't that men are turned off by marriage - or statements of intent, it is that the current dating market is not congruent with the marriage path and marriage is viewed as increasingly risky by men so women have to compete with a free sex dating market as well as bring more to the table in terms of wife-potential in oder to inspire a man to enter into the risky marriage. All while women are hindering their own ability to uphold a clear path toward marriage within the market by refusing to self-limit their own options and take their own risks toward that end. It is part purpose, part timing, part cake-eating, and part red-pill for women.

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