Monday, June 25, 2012

Forming A Proper Response To Hearing "Man Up!" From Your Wife

Once again, Athol at MMSL has made an intriguing post that inspired a response that grew to post-length itself.  So once again I'm using it for my own blog, because it's so damn pertinent.

The focus of the post was the insidious admonition to "Man Up" that we've been hearing steadily for two decades, and how it's often used as a shaming technique to get men to do stuff that is not necessarily in their best interests.

This is a bigger deal than most men realize.

One of the hardest things about taking the Red Pill is accepting responsibility for your own actions as a man and the head of your household (even if you are the only member of that household). It’s easy to be a Blue Pill dude and defer responsibility to other people — your wife, the government, someone else — but when you take the Red Pill and make that commitment to yourself that you will deal with the universe the way it is, and not the way it’s idealized to be, then things get complicated. And hard.

Athol’s absolutely right: when someone is telling you to “Man Up”, they’re invoking shame and using your own masculinity against you. 

Now, if that comes from a man then it can be seen 
as an invitation to remember your masculine power, qwitchyerbitchen, and do the job at hand. When men tell other men to “Man Up” (usually) they are trying to improve the condition of the other man. In the Male Social Matrix men are generally encouraged to help each other like that as part of the process of turning a Guy in to a Man . . . or simply providing moral support for a difficult issue. While the emphasis in the MSM is overtly on competition between men, a long list of masculine codes, from basic sportsmanship to battlefield chivalry, are designed to mitigate that competitive nature by tacitly providing assistance to less-able men.

While men are highly competitive, they also (as a class) tend to be dedicated to using their success and position to elevate other men even if it means that they are sacrificing a little competitive edge to do it.  Because while winning is vitally important to men, winning unfairly cheapens the effort.  And if your competitors are not at their best, then your best doesn't mean much.  An Olympic sprinter at a Middle School track meet isn't going to find much meaningful competition.  Any "wins" he makes there are going to be suspect -- not because he cheated, but because of the mediocre nature of competition.

Since men thrive on competition as the cornerstone of the Male Social Matrix, then the only way that the most successful competitors are going to experience real satisfaction with their success is to ensure that the competition is as challenging as possible.  When an Olympian goes to the games, the focus is not on "I'm going to win a Gold!" it's "I'm going to face the best athletes on the planet and I'm going to be shown -- in front of the entire world -- how I stack up."  So the impetus in the MSM is to improve your competition as much as you can without making them better than you.  It's the old "I taught him everything he knows . . . but I didn't teach him everything I know!" saw from the older, more experienced man referring to a competitive protege.

When a man tells another man to “Man Up” he’s offering both support and criticism, acknowledging the difficulties of the issue but also declaring his belief that the other man has within him the capability and testicular fortitude to get the job done despite his own fears and insecurities about the issue. Since all men have fears and insecurities, a quiet, private discussion about them with another dude who acknowledges those fears and insecurities but also expresses his belief in your ability to deal with them is a gift from another man.

And that's how most men take that kind of admonishment . . . from other men.  As constructive criticism and just enough shame implicit to be motivating.  The few times when another man has told me to "Man Up", "Sack Up", or "Cowboy Up", it has been a straight-up reminder that I'm a dude, I've got big hairy balls, and the way to properly approach a problem or challenge is not from a place of fear and insecurity, but from a place of confident determination, and I've been (in retrospect) grateful to the men who said it to me.

But when it comes from a woman, it’s the nastiest sort of insult. On par with the “C-word”.

When a woman says “Man Up”, she’s not offering constructive criticism wrapped in a masculine-flavored coating of support. She’s calling into question his masculinity and his ability to get the job done, and expressing her doubts about her dude in the most insidious of ways. 

Don't believe that ladies?  Think that telling your man to "Man Up" is no big deal?  Let me explain it to you like this: it’s the moral equivalent of presenting yourself to your husband before an important formal occasion after three hours prep on hair, make-up and wardrobe only to have him wrinkle up his forehead and say “You mean you’re going to wear that? In public?Devastating.

In that situation, the asshole-in-question is undermining not just your confidence, but your ability to properly interpret and react to a complex social situation, which is the cornerstone of the Female Social Matrix.  In a very real way he's attacking your femininity, not through an overt assault on your sexuality or appearance or the other stuff that feminists get torqued up about, but by questioning your ability to navigate the FSM.

So when you ladies tell your man to "Man Up" in just about any situation, you are taking a well-aimed kick at his unprotected testicles.  And since it's coming from you, who knows him better than just about anyone, it's orders of magnitude worse than had it come from a stranger.

The Red Pill doesn’t banish fears and insecurities — if anything, once you know all of the things that can go wrong with your life, your wife, and your relationships, it can make you a little paranoid. But what the Red Pill can do for you is give you the space to acknowledge your own fears and insecurities and handle them. The Red Pill doesn’t say you have to be an indestructible, invulnerable, and emotionally-distant man in order to thrive. But it does give you just enough security and belief in yourself to push back when you get the shit-testing “Man UP!” from a woman.

So how does a Red Pill man, especially one working the MAP hardcore, respond to such a shrewish and inconsiderate request?

First, consider the context of the situation.  Carefully evaluate the objective challenges you face.  If it's a work issue, for example, and you understand how precarious your company is positioned in these uncertain economic times, then responding to your wife's request that you "Man Up" and demand a raise from your boss when the company is contemplating lay-offs demonstrates her lack of knowledge of the situation and suggests an appropriate, quietly-delivered response:

"Have you noticed it's not your name on my paycheck?  This job is my responsibility to navigate, and if I don't think this is an opportune time to push back, then you're just going to have to fucking trust me that I know what the hell it is I'm doing.  Because as delicate as things are, having someone who doesn't know what the hell she's talking about offering me bad advice about how to run my career isn't going to be doing me any favors."

And yes, use profanity.  Don't use insulting language or name-calling . . . but there is a time and place to display your command of invective to your woman, and this qualifies.

Or, if it's a tangled social situation -- for instance, stumbling across evidence that a male friend of yours is cheating on his spouse -- then an admonishment to "Man Up" from your woman is actually a nasty way for her to try to shame and manipulate you into feminine-behavior under the auspices that it's the "right" thing to do.  That is, when your wife wants you to "Man Up" and rat on your friend to his wife, what she's really trying to do is drag you into the uncleansed bowels of the Female Social Matrix and use you as her surrogate bitch.

Women often feel that they are the keepers of moral and ethical behavior in our society, which is Hamstereese for selectively using morality to increase their position in the FSM (or, conversely, to tear down another woman's).  Part of this can be blamed on the relative powerlessness women enjoyed in the pre-industrial era, when their only legitimate way of using power was through their men.  But now they can't use that excuse -- trying to drag a man into the FSM for your own purposes by shaming his sense of masculinity is nothing more than blatant manipulation.

So how do you respond to her "Man Up!" in this case?

"You know, it's been said that learning to mind your own business is 80% of all human wisdom.  This is a volatile situation that has the possibility of messing up a lot of people's lives,  and since it concerns something that's clearly none of our fucking business, then I'm going to 'Man Up' and exercise my masculine prerogative for wisdom by keeping my mouth shut and strongly encouraging my gossipy wife to do the same.  The fact is, we don't know all the facts.  We don't know what kind of private intimate relationship those two have, no matter how close we might be to them.  And stirring a turd of this size is just going to cover everyone in shit so . . . if you think me unmanly because I'm unwilling to destroy someone else marriage willy-nilly, then buy me a tutu and call me Fifi, Babe, because clearly I'm not man enough to do it."

Presented in a growling, obviously-judgmental tone of voice, this should shut down all future discussion on the topic, unless she's Batshit Crazy or, conversely, so tied into the FSM that your wishes on the matter do not matter to her.  Which implies you have much, much bigger problems on your hand that idle gossip.

Of course, the hardest time to hear "Man Up" from your woman is when it involves your own family.  Especially your relationship with your mother.  A wife/girlfriend and her mother-in-law is always a rough relationship, no matter how cordial it might seem.  In a very real way your woman and your mom are fighting for control over you, and both of them can use the "Man Up" as a shaming technique in their FSM power struggle.  This is particularly hard to take, and it can put you in a particularly bad spot.

When your wife tells you to "Man Up" when it comes to your mother or father, then once again objectively evaluate the context of the situation.  Usually that kind of fight comes when your parents are trying to get you to do something that your woman sees as a threat to your relationship or her power.  And while the last thing you want is your mother dominating your relationship, it's just as bad to have your wife dominate your relationship with your mother.  Hearing your mother tell you to "Man Up" in regards to your wife is just as bad, and calls for the same level of response.

In a Blue Pill marriage what usually happens is that the Beta in question gets in the middle and tries to act as an obsequious intermediary, inserting himself into the feminine power struggle in a particularly masochistic and unhelpful way.  The result is often increasing frustration on the part of both your mother and your woman, purposeful misunderstandings and overly diplomatic language, with no real resolution in sight.  The Beta just wants everyone to get along, and he will bust his ass in a fevered sweat trying to appease both wife and mother.

This rarely, if ever, works to his advantage and ultimately sets him up for innumerable future problems stemming from his lack of backbone.  By the time "Man Up!" is heard from either party, Mr. Blue Pill has usually already traded the last shreds of his testicles for magic beans or somesuch, and the impact of the command is lessened simply because Mr. Blue Pill has long given up on his own masculinity in an attempt at negotiating domestic harmony.  Ten years later he's often divorced and bitter because both his wife and his mother lost respect for his lack of Alpha.  (Yes, your Mom is a woman, too, and responds to your Alpha just like any other woman.  Don't get all Oedipus-creepy about this, though.  Your mother's perspective on your masculinity is only sexual in the most obtuse sort of way.  She's looking for validation that she produced a strong male worthy of providing her descendants).

So how does the Red Pill man respond to his wife and/or mother telling him to "Man Up!" in regards to the other party?  Simple.  He drags both of them into the same room and he makes them be silent for ten minutes while he chews both of them out for their juvenile and disrespectful behavior.

And that's the general key to all such "Man Up!" commands.  If you have a hard time evaluating a complex situation enough to give a cogent and eloquent response, then a prompt and direct expression of your own sense of masculinity, delivered forcefully and meaningfully, should be sufficient to a) get her off your back and b) do so in such a way that's pure Alpha, and not Beta (which is what she's accusing you of) in the slightest.

Here's a few practice lines:

WOMAN: ". . . and I don't know why you let this happen all the time.  God, sometimes I just wish you would Man Up and just handle it!"

Gentle response:  "Honey, I can appreciate what your saying, and I understand your position.  However, if you call my masculinity into question even once more during this conversation, it will be over, we'll be having another, altogether different discussion, and there will be unpleasant consequences and repercussions.  Is that understood?"

Moderate response (Set Sarcasm controls to "disintegrate"):  "Gosh, thank you ever so much for your opinion of my masculinity.  I'm terribly sorry you see it as so deficient, but since you don't happen to own a pair of fucking testicles and I do, I think I'm going to have to be the judge of that.  Just because I'm not doing what you want me to doesn't mean I'm unmanly, it means I'm a man with my own fucking brain, which also means I don't take poorly-contrived, selfishly-motivated juvenile crap like 'man up' lightly, even from a woman who is supposed to me on MY fucking team.  Now maybe you should disappear for a little while, because if you were trying to piss me off and get me angry, you succeeded . . . and right now it would be in the best interests of our relationship if I wasn't being reminded of that."
 Severe Response (USE WITH CAUTION): Unzip pants, drop them to your knees.  Grasp and brandish your genitalia in a crude and threatening way.  Approach your wife, never taking your eyes off of her.  Get well within her comfort zone of "personal space" until you can feel her exhaled breath on your face.  Your intensity and determination in this case is key.  She should be shocked, nervous, and maybe even a little frightened.
 Say, very quietly with just a hint of menace in your voice, "If you need a reminder of my masculinity, that can be arranged.  But until your balls are bigger than mine, then I'd count it as a personal favor if you would shut the fuck up about my masculinity, lest I take it as an invitation to prove it to you.  Because that's perhaps the most insulting and disrespectful thing you've ever said to me.  Really, that's the kind of shit I'd expect to hear out of a brainless teenager's mouth, not a grown and allegedly mature woman.  So don't even speak, don't say a fucking word to me right now, because I'm teetering on the edge of a serious and very masculine blow-up and I'm really exerting a lot of effort to avoid that.  If you were a man who said that to me like that, we'd already be fighting.  Since you're not, I'd strongly recommend you retreat from my presence and reconsider your advice.  Then after I've calmed down, if you still think my actions aren't 'manly' enough for your tastes, then we can arrange for that demonstration.  Now I'm going to put my large, hairy nutsack away, and I'm going to walk away, and I don't want to hear another fucking word from you until you're ready to sincerely apologize to me for your profound rudeness."  
Turn, walk away, and carefully replace genitalia in pants without accidentally zipping up your scrotum. (Writhing on the ground clutching your crotch in pain after that particular speech is going to seriously kill your credibility.)

All three of the above responses should be sufficient, but the over-all rule-of-thumb about this is that when a woman challenges your masculinity with "Man Up", you respond with unabashed, balls-in-your-face unmitigated and unwatered ALPHA.  That's the essential nature of this shit-test, and the only appropriate and beneficial response is a strong Alpha Move.

It's like when your kid criticizes you about something in a particularly rude way.  Regardless of whether he's right or wrong, the disrespect and the rudeness become the issue, and that has to be handled first, and quickly, before the merits of the criticism are addressed.  When your woman tells you to "Man Up", it doesn't matter what the issue is -- the first order of business for a Red Pill man is to correct the bad behavior and let her know, in no uncertain terms, that her "suggestion" has now taken center stage, regardless of how serious the other issue might be.  

When you allowed her into your boat and under your command, then it was with the tacit understanding that she would be supportive of you and respectful of your masculinity -- as respectful as you are to her femininity.  Telling you to "Man Up" isn't good First Officer advice, it's tantamount to mutiny, and it should be treated as such.  An attack on your masculinity like "Man Up" is a direct violation of the Rules of Engagement as a kidney punch, and should be treated accordingly.

Whatever you do, don't let the remark pass un-noted.  Indeed, the proper response is good ol' fashioned masculine righteous anger -- you might be making the wrong decision or taking the wrong attitude for the situation, but the simple fact of the matter is that it's YOUR FUCKING JOB to make decisions, and you and you alone are the proper judge of your own sense of masculinity.  Your woman gave you the endorsement and validation of her perspective on your masculinity when she got onto your boat.  There should be no questioning that in your marriage until she gets off your boat -- voluntarily or not.  Basically, if you're the kind of man who will put up with that kind of shit from her, then you deserve the consequences of that.

I'm lucky: Mrs. Ironwood has used that particular tactic less than a handful of times, and all within the first few years of our relationship.  Once she realized that I'm open to plenty of constructive criticism, but my sense of masculinity was off the table and not up for her review, she backed off the tactic as unproductive.  And since one of the last times she pulled it landed her in marital counseling for a couple of uncomfortable weeks, she grew to understand that this is a generally unproductive tactic to take.

Convince your woman that it's unproductive in the most forceful of terms, and she'll back off the "Man Up" shaming language, too.    But it's your responsibility as a Red Pill husband to enforce that rule.  It sucks, it might get you into an even bigger fight, but if you don't win this one then winning all the others isn't going to make a damn bit of difference.


  1. I don't think my wife has ever used that term with me, nor do I think she ever would... but I will say this: there have been more than a few times I've heard her say it to me about other men, and I take a perverse satisfaction in hearing those words come from her mouth to describe actions she wishes other men would take, because usually they are actions she knows I would.

    1. Has a guy ever given you mixed signals?

      One minute he’s crazy about you and the next minute you have no clue if he ever wants to see you again?

      And it’s especially hard when there’s something special between you and you have no idea what went wrong.

      I assure you it’s nothing that you did.

      In fact, he may even care about you a great deal and still not be able to stop himself from acting this way.

      But why does this happen?

      There’s one BIG reason why men do this...

      And I discovered this eye opening video that will shed some light on this bizarre behaviour.

      Insert subject line here and link it to: <=========> Your ex won’t be able to resist?

      It all comes down to a missing “secret ingredient” that not one in a thousand women knows about...

      And it’s the biggest factor that determines whether a man just “likes” you...

      ...or if he sees you as “The One.”

      You see, this “secret ingredient” is so important to a man that no matter how attracted to you he is, or how strong your chemistry is...

      If it’s missing, he’ll never be able to truly give his heart to you...

      And he will always have an unshakeable urge to seek out a woman who has this one “secret ingredient.”

      Here’s what I’m talking about: <=========> The difference between “like” and “love” (most women miss this)

      On the other hand, when you know this powerful “secret ingredient”... won’t believe how effortless, passionate and bulletproof your relationship can be.

      Trust me, this is going to blow you away.

      Discover it here: ==> Men fall in love with women who have this “secret ingredient”

      Thanks again.

  2. Ian, when is your book due. I know many men, who'd need a look

    1. That's hard to say . . . because it's such a big job, and I want to do it right and not rush to publication before I'm happy with it. Some of it will come from the blog, of course (hey, I can steal copy from myself -- no law against that) but the vast majority is new stuff. Hardest is profiling other bloggers. I've had some outstanding responses from a few, mild responses from some, and deafening silence from others (and a couple retired on me in the process).

      But here's the thesis: Feminism has been attacking masculinity and men for the last 40 years, and after systematically stripping the Patriarchy of its power until the entire culture is in chaos, women are now languishing under the crappy system they've created while men are checking out and indulging in self-discovery and revalorizing masculinity on their own terms. The Manosphere facilitates this by providing an anonymous yet intimate forum on a wide range of topics, filling the role that male elders did in pre-Industrial times. But their answers and definitions are not, surprisingly enough, the same ones that feminism is pushing on them . . . and the consequences for everyone are going to be explosive.

  3. Gentle Response = when you return from work (assuming you're one of the few males still allowed employment) the door locks will be changed and your stuff in the gutter

    the Servers and Protectors will be in a squadcar across the street, waiting to ensure that you don't Offend Again

    Mod/Severe Response: you will be arrested for Verbal Harrassment (oh yes they will!) cuffed, photographed, stripped, and tossed in a cage about half the size of her kitchen (which you will share will other Abusers and Offenders)

    the female guards will peek in the little view-slat and snicker (audibly! lol) as you strain on the floor-level metal commode to shit each morning

    and that'll be just the beginning of your education, baby!

    want to Respond to a female in Amerika? you'd better have many dollars to spend on lawyer-pussies, or you WILL be tried (often by female Prosecutors and female Judges) and you WILL be convicted of your "crime" (more often, you will plead out, once you realize they can do whatever they want to you, whenever they want)

    the Abuser's (that'll be you) home and children will then be awarded to the victim, and if you complain about the Incarceration Economy of Amerika you'll be told you're an anti-cop Criminal who hates authority and women, and just wants Anarchy to rule us all (sigh)

    dont get me wrong mr ironwood, they're good Responses -- but in our matriarchies, few women are going to let a mere man, especially their husband, raise their voice or curse at them

    that IS DV and it IS on the lawbooks, and they WILL use it

    think you're a Special Snowflake? a Tough Guy? YOUR wife is Different . . . you're Different, you wont go staight to the mancages? try those Responses and see what happens

    wifey may get a gina-tingle the first couple times you pull it, and let it pass with some hot make-up sex . . . but it only takes ONE negative "response" on her part to destroy you, with no more effort than a phone call

    1. That depends entirely on what kind of marriage and relationship you have to begin with. If you've allowed your wife to walk all over you the entire time and she feels entitled to use your balls as a hood ornament, then yes, you may have something to fear from this.

      But that's the point: if you are acting out of fear, YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. Avoiding reasonable conflict in your marriage because you're worried she might call the cops for no good reason means she's already won all future fights, and you might as well snap off your dick and put it into her purse. In that case, as I said, you have far bigger problems than her slighting your masculinity in a conversation.

      Look, this advice is for men who have taken the Red Pill and have run the MAP and are operating from a position of strength and confidence. If you are still a Blue Pill dude who quakes in fear at the prospect of losing your dwindling pussy supply or potential incarceration, the clearly you have a lot of work to do exploring your masculinity before you can credibly defend it.

      Personally, if Mrs. I ever called the cops on me for anything less than a physical assault, our relationship as it stands would be OVER. She knows that. I know that. That's a mutually-recognized fact implicit in our current relationship. Hell, she knows how freaked out and angry I'd be if she even discussed our private business with other people, much less get Law Enforcement involved.

      But then I did an excellent job in the Wife Selection phase of the relationship. If you didn't, then you might have to worry. .

      If you're just starting the MAP and don't feel that you are in a powerful enough position to push back that strongly, then your best recourse is to glare at her angrily, say "I don't have to stand here and take this fucking abuse from you," and leave the house, turn off your phone, and go someplace quiet and peaceful for 24 hours or so while she sweats it out. When you return (assuming the locks haven't been changed -- and if they have, feel free to break into your own house. No law against that.) she will be freaking the fuck out over your disappearance and will be faced with the Dread of you not coming back due to her rudeness. At that point, once you have assured her that you are OK and you are now in control of your emotions, ask for an apology. If you don't get it . . . turn on your heel, walk back out the door, and repeat the process.

      She'll take the hint. And if she doesn't, then you've learned something very valuable about your wife.

    2. I have to say as a woman married 4 husband has never said ANYTHING like that...and I have to say...just reading it and thinking of him saying it...just made me smile and ugh...tingle...I wish my husband would have any reaction to man up instead can handle it

  4. "But then I did an excellent job in the Wife Selection phase of the relationship. If you didn't, then you might have to worry."

    ah, of course, you are the incredibly discriminating, Wife Selection Expert . . . you are the Special Snowflake, could never happen to YOU b/c of how clever you were during the Choice Phase . . . unlike all of those other Inferior Imbecile males who were duped (as you suggest by "If you didn't")

    see, it's only those Other Guys that have to worry, not me!

    i KNOW my wife and she would NEVER etc etc

    there's no systemic problem here! it's just poor PreSelection Prowess on the part of lesser males

    and if those inferior Other Guys get stomped by the gynogulag, why, it's their own fault for not being a PreSelective Genius like yrself

    a v convenient philosophy! tautologic to the teeth! you should get a job in LE

    stoopid me, i should have realized beforehand that Your Wife is Different as a result of your elite Preselective Prowess

    you should open a Therapy Practice to teach the other lesser males how to preselect properly so as to attain invulnerability from the Sistem

  5. "Trust but verify".

    And yeah, I am a "special little snowflake". Why? Because while most of my peers were running around chasing pussy like it was on sale, I was systematically searching for the woman I wanted to be the mother of my children -- and used that selection criteria exclusively. By the time I was 19, I knew with a degree of certainty usually displayed by 40 year old men looking for second wives, what the hell I wanted in a woman . . . and what I did NOT.

    Look, I'm not being naive here. I don't trust Mrs. Ironwood more because I'm "In Wuv", I trust her because she has built up a level of trust with me over the course of a 20 year relationship that has validated my trust in her every single time. Is it possible that she will suddenly go batshit crazy and turn into a shrewish bitch? Sure. I'm prepared against that possibility. It's also possible that I'll go batshit crazy, and she's prepared against that possibility. Yes, my wife IS different. I wouldn't have selected her if she wasn't.

    So what do you want me to do? Throw away the system that has worked for us for twenty years, because you're giving me shit that it isn't perfect? Do you want me to say that I did a crappy job selecting my wife, because a bunch of Beta schlubs were too blinded by pussy to do their own due diligence?

    Tough. I was smart enough to do a good job. If you weren't, perhaps you can learn from your mistakes. If you see a systematic problem, then yes, it is likely poor "Preselection Prowess" on the part of most men. And as far as being a "convenient philosophy", well, it's worked for ME for 20 years. But then I'm not an idiot, and there are a lot of male idiots running rampant over the plains.

    I do have a therapy practice to teach lesser males. It's called "The Red Pill Room" and you're in it. You won't learn invulnerability from the system, but it is my earnest hope that once you spend some time in proximity of wisdom (not to mention proper spelling and grammar) some might actually stick and rescue you from the mire of self-loathing and bitterness you dwell in.

    Hope springs eternal.

  6. So what do you want me to do? Throw away the system that has worked for us for twenty years, because you're giving me shit that it isn't perfect?

    no, i want you to stop the EgoStrutting and superiority sham, under the ass umption that what "worked for ME" is applicable to other men in the United Sisterhood of Amerika (filed under duh-uh)

    "Tough. I was smart enough to do a good job. If you weren't, perhaps you can learn from your mistakes."

    it's v revealing, this is the second time youve ass umed that i'm bitter b/c i didn't do my "due diligence" at wife-vetting, and come up the Big Winner like your Special Snowflake Self

    however, you cant even get that much correct -- i have no trail of broken marriages behind me, no CS, no ex-wives etc that you seem so intent on imputing to me

    disappointed? you are quite the mouthy little bitch aintcha? i can only imagine what Ms. Ironhead must be like

    doutless you deserve each other, but at any rate, i responded to this post b/c it is irresponsible for you and yr webpals to advocate domestic behavior from men that could v possibly lead to the destruction not of their marriages, but of their entire lives

    i actually like the "man-up" responses your post listed, but, again, promoting such behavior without advising men of the dangers inherent in such behavior is naive, childish and, again, irresponsible

    "You won't learn invulnerability from the system, but it is my earnest hope that once you spend some time in proximity of wisdom (not to mention proper spelling and grammar) some might actually stick and rescue you from the mire of self-loathing and bitterness you dwell in."

    you are quite the arrogant fuck from behind screen safety, eh? look mr snowflake, if you want in my face that bad i am not hard to find, we'll see how long your fat yap runs amok

    with two bitches in the household, which of you gets to be the man?

    1. It's not EgoStrutting if you're legit -- and I am. Do I have an ego? Oh, mais ouis. All creative people do, even if their creativity is limited to smearing their feces in public places and calling it art -- not my thing, but if you're into it, you have an ego.

      Also, I understand that not everything I do is going to work for other men. Other men don't have my unique set of experiences and insights. Does that make me special? Why yes, yes it does. If your life is so piss-poor that you mistake honest, straight-forward advice any reasonable man can follow as "acting superior", then you have far deeper issues than this humble blog can cure. If your married to a woman who couldn't handle a bit of straight-forward correction without turning into a screechtard and calling the cops, I can understand how displaying any sign of a spine might turn your bowels to water with the fear of her displeasure, and I'd counsel you to find professional help.

      If you're complaining that I'm acting all smug because I have a perfect life . . . well, I can't argue with that. I love my wife, my three kids are brilliant and healthy, I'm working my fourth consecutive dream job, I've got a great house, I'm respected and loved by family and friends, and I've got plenty of disposable income. Did all this happen by accident, a bit of fortuitous circumstance or inheritance?

      NO, it happened because I WORKED MY FUCKING ASS OFF FOR IT, applied a tremendous amount of mental and physical effort to achieving that goal, refused to accept obstacles in my path, and generally did my best to avoid things like smearing public places with my feces or marrying a cop-happy screachtard. I could go on -- I also didn't join a gang, have unprotected sex with skanks, or get involved in a land war in Asia, all good pieces of advice for a young man . . . but if you want to gank me on being smug because I was smart enough not to stick my hand in the flame and actually build the kind of life I wanted, then yeah, I'll take smug. I'll even take superior, considering how wretched some of the poor bastards who made their decisions with their dicks instead of their brain are.

      Re-read what I wrote. I never accused you or even assumed you were bitter (your words suggest it, but I didn't). I merely suggested that if you were bitter, then perhaps it was because you weren't smart enough to marry the right woman and do other things that were designed to improve your life -- gosh, I suppose that IS a big assumption to make. THEN you come back with a long list of other assumptions I didn't make, and try to act all hurt. You got sand in your vagina today? So sorry. I could give a rat's ass about your personal history unless its pertinent to the blog, and based on what you've said (and what you haven't said) I can only ASS UME (gosh, that's witty, I'll have to use that) that isn't the case. This blog is for men who have heterosexual marriages that theoretically include sex.


    2. With women. Key point, there. I'll give you a moment to grab a crayon and scribble that down. Done? How about now? OK, let's continue.

      Then you cross a line.

      Let me say this once, for everyone to see and learn by heart: I am a thick-skinned guy who can handle everything from a cleverly worded verbal barb (notably absent from your comment) to a shotgun butt in the teeth. You want to accuse me of homoerotic tendencies? Fire away. I'm secure enough in MY masculinity to take it. You want to call me a mouthy little bitch? Sure, knock yourself out. I've been called worse by better people . . . TODAY.

      But you don't trash my wife. Ever. I've almost gone to jail twice because some dickhead was disrespectful to my wife and I objected strongly and violently. I don't mind tempting fate a third time. The mother of my children is OFF THE FUCKING TABLE when it comes to your puerile and -- lets face it -- thoroughly Middle School behavior. I'm sure you've been at home gleefully whacking off repeatedly to what a wicked burn you gave me . . . but you talk about my wife, then it moves beyond friendly banter and gets into the kind of territory that ultimately leads to continuing the conversation through seconds.

      But since your showing your ass on the internet, that's unlikely (and let's face it, tonight's a schoolnight anyway, you probably don't get to stay up that late). So I'm just going to warn you that if you do it again, you'll be banned. Insulting Mrs. Ironwood on this blog is a bannable offense. You can insult me all you want (extra points if you can do it with proper spelling and grammar -- epic fail, there) or the slightest bit of originality (Zero for two . . . ouch). But you don't get to talk shit about her. Ever. First, last, and only warning.

      Now, just because you are too much of a coward to advocate that men simply stand up for themselves without wetting their pants at the thought of a vengeful wifey calling the po-po doesn't mean that the rest of us are.

      (TO BE CONTINUED AGAIN . . . don't worry, ray, it's almost over . . . just close your eyes and try really hard to go to your Happy Place. It's not your fault, ray, it's not your fault . . . )

    3. I ASS UME (see what I did? I used it twice! That makes it TWICE as funny, doesn't it?)that the men reading this (and you) are reasonably intelligent adults and will take my advice in the context of a larger commitment to the Red Pill path. That might be a bold assumption on my part, but I stand by it. But if you can't handle your truth straight-up and want to mix it with something fruity so you don't have to taste it, here's the disclaimer you crave so badly:


      Happy now? Does that make you feel better? Or should I also launch into a soliloquy about how you should rub their feet every night before bed while chanting "sisterhood is powerful, please don't hurt me"? Just let me know, sweetie. I'd hate to offend.

      Lastly, I'm quite the arrogant fuck when I'm not behind the screen, too. You know why? MY SHIT FUCKING WORKS. It has for twenty years, and it will for twenty more. Now, it might only work for me, but considering how few men get their shit to work AT ALL in their marriages, I'd say that gives me the right to be arrogant about my marriage and my general approach to life.

      You want me to display some humility just so you can feel better about yourself? Tough. I'll be as arrogant as I feel like, and I'm happy to defend that arrogance because yes, my Kung Fu really is that good. But it's not a secret formula or a simple Game strategy, its a comprehensive approach to my life that I started when I was fucking 16 years old. Sure, a lot of guys have a lot of catching up to do . . . but from the volume of mail I get from dudes who have used my stuff to devastating effect -- and not one single domestic issue requiring the intervention of the police -- I think I'll stand by my arrogance because, and I'll remind you once more, MY SHIT FUCKING WORKS. When your shit works, you can write your own fucking blog and attract your own feckless trolls who don't know how the SHIFT key works. I'll even come by and take a look. It would be amusing. And if your shit works REAL well, then maybe you can even write a whole BOOK about it. I'll just be over here, holding my breath.

      Now, run along and brush your teeth to get the taste of my sweaty, hairy nutsack out of your mouth and get to bed, Junior. School tomorrow. And you know how cranky you get if you don't get enough sleep.

  7. Ray,

    not to say that women don't have great legal power to make their man's life hell-they do. Most women don't use this power because they generally love their man and want him to stick around. In fact, the problem is STILL all too often the opposite, women staying with abusive men they SHOULD use the legal system to eject from their lives and won't because they "love him so much".

    I daresay any man whose wife calls the cops on him simply because he objected to something she said to him (without laying a finger on her or cursing her out) is a man who really needs to think about whether he wants to stay married to such a woman.

    The corollary of that, is that women generally prefer their men to be men they can respect. The man who lets comments from his wife insulting his manhood pass unchallenged, is a man who is eventually going to either lose his wife, or end up with a wife who treats him with complete and utter contempt. That would be just as bad, or worse, than ending up in a cell-at least that sentence will end in a few years.

  8. My experience with "man up" comments from women who want me to fight their battles for them.

    Most of the time a simple, "It's your problem, you deal with it. I personally don't give a shit" is all you need.

    Women have all of these perceptions that somebody is insulting them and went the men to fix it. Most of the time these perceived insults are bullshit. And she just wants a man to do her dirty work.

  9. NOTE: ray got himself banned. I warned him, and the vitriol-spewing dumbass went and crossed my line. I don't have many, but those that I do have are inviolate. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say.

    And ray . . . I'll consider your offer. Email me your physical address. I might be able to work you into my schedule.

    1. Yeah, I didn't think you would. And you didn't. Probably for the best.

      But the homoerotic stuff, ray? That was a bit much, don't you think? I'm starting to understand why you might have some trust issues with women . . .

    2. So those would be:
      <puts on glasses

      Ray Bans....oh yeah

  10. Your post was awesome. You were very clear and concise with it. As clear as an azure sky over an unmuddied lake.

  11. I dig this post Ian. BTW, I wouldn't have let that bitch ass Ray get up under my skin like that. Most internet thugs/terrorists aren't going to do shit anyways. Keep up the good work.

  12. Dude, I'm usually not the biggest fan of your 75+ page stories and only do some selective cross reading, but this one was worth reading entirely.

    Too bad you had to stand up to a looser. "Man Up" to me means also picking the fights worth picking. But then again, that's an individual choice. And the internet is a difficult place for witty banter.

    Again, great post and so true.

  13. Nice smack down, although why you bother I don't know. Guys like Ray are hopeless. It couldn't possibly be his fault for marrying the wrong woman, after all, she was a solid 9!

    I think some guys get just enough of the red pill to be inoculated against getting the real thing.

  14. Nice smack down, although why you bother I don't know. Guys like Ray are hopeless. It couldn't possibly be his fault for marrying the wrong woman, after all, she was a solid 9!

    I think some guys get just enough of the red pill to be inoculated against getting the real thing.

  15. Nice quote ditchdoctor, I feel ya bro.
    Livin' the loco veda here in wonderland.

  16. "Say, very quietly with just a hint of menace in your voice, "If you need a reminder of my masculinity, that can be arranged. But until your balls are bigger than mine, then I'd count it as a personal favor if you would shut the fuck up about my masculinity, lest I take it as an invitation to prove it to you. "

    I'm confused. Are you basically threatening her here? Most of these sound like over reactions. SO someone says something stupid... Let me whip my cock out and threaten her!!!

    1. I suppose it depends upon whether you consider a metaphorical kick to the testicles to be an occasion for over-reaction. The point is to instruct the lady in question that such a remark is insulting and emasculating at such a deep level as to be the moral equivalent of the "c-word". Since a woman who has resorted to such tactics is unlikely to listen to a calm, reasonable explanation of why this is such a nasty thing to say to a man, a direct appeal to her emotions via a strongly-worded and well-delivered correction is your best bet. Note I gave three ascending responses to the situation. I don't recommend hauling out your junk except in extreme circumstances.

  17. Could you use a similar response using the same principles above for a girl who you are not married to?

    Actually I'm sure you can but I can't imagine how it would sound or how angry would be appropriate.

    1. It should matter only slightly less if you aren't married. If you aren't married, then this is a good time to remind the woman in question that she is fungible. That is, that you have the option of dropping her ass if she continues with the attacks on your masculinity.

      For a committed marriage, it's more severe, but it needs to be. And it should come up only once. If it comes up again . . . you have problems.

  18. This shit is the bomb. I don't want to foment a Roissy level of paranoia, but guys really do have to be on guard for their women cutting them down in the social group or even to their faces. A certain slice of American women take it as their birthright to trashtalk their man around town and then use that self-generated hash against him in the "man up" exhortation.

    I broke up with an LTR mostly for the reason she couldn't stop airing our relationship "dirty laundry" (which in fact wasn't really fights but just shit that annoyed her that she went to them about instead of talking to me) to her friends. I told her I didn't care what her single friends thought about who should pay for what or whether we should move in, but she fell back on "but those are the things a man does!" Their idea of a "man" was a dude who gave free shit to women and let them disrespect him. F that sideways.

  19. So I've just started reading this Red Pill literature and I will say that I'm 25, female, and have been divorced for 2 years from a man who NEVER worked, did anything around the house, constantly stole from me, set our house on fire and killed all of our pets (intentionally)... that sort of thing. I'm having trouble understanding this whole Red Pill idea, though. I've been treated the way the men on these forums are complaining of being treated and it SUCKS. I would NEVER do that to a man. So that part I get. What I don't understand is why this is a movement. I mean, why does it take this underground... well, movement, for people to demand respect, regardless of genitalia. Aside from the somewhat rapey "extreme response" nothing you've said seems all that out of the ordinary to me. A woman SHOULDN'T disprespect a man by saying he's not really a man at all. Women SHOULDN'T leave their marriages out of boredom.

    Maybe I'm just viewing my brother's relationship with his wife, who spends all his money, sits around all day while his kids are at daycare, talks down to him, and makes him do all of the housework after working all day as the exception and it's more of a norm than I think. I've read up on a bunch of this and I just feel like I'm missing something. Interesting read, though.

  20. As a woman, I do see that being disrespectful or nagging is not the right way to tell a man that he should do something, but I struggle finding the right way to say it. I often end up simply not talking about it, for fear of saying it the wrong way, or saying it in a very "soft" way, which seems to be wrong too because he ignores it or gets mad (and doesn't adress the problem). Do you have this type of advice for women (that is, advice on how to say things)?

  21. It would take a lot for me ever, ever to tell a man in my life to man up. I would likely just leave if he were not handling what he needed to handle in this life. That said, everyone in a relationship deserves respect, and the responses listed here would be relationship-ending for me...and I say that from the perspective of my own 20-year marriage. I'm not disloyal, but I do demand (and offer) kindness and respect in relationship. Clearly not your target audience. I'm not entirely sure who is. What woman wants to be treated that way?

  22. If you need your ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend to come crawling back to you on their knees (no matter why you broke up) you gotta watch this video
    right away...

    (VIDEO) Have your ex CRAWLING back to you...?

  23. It’s no secret that a man’s ego has a powerful pull on him.

    In fact this hardwired need to impress and to WIN is so deeply embedded into the male mind...

    That nearly everything a man truly desires is based around this biological “drive” to prove, succeed and to win.

    It’s why so many men become workaholics, gym junkies or become obsessed with their hobbies.

    But what most women don’t know... how deeply this “drive” is connected to his love, desire, and attraction for the woman in his life.

    And I’m about to show you how you can “tap into” a man’s ege to refocus that same drive and gut level obsession...

    ...on pleasing you, romancing you, and proving his love for you like you’re his sole purpose in life.

    Here’s how: ==> The “Go Ahead” Signal That Makes Him Obsessed With Winning Your Love

    Mr Gix

    P.S. When you tap into a man’s ego this way, you can cause him to literally become obsessed with proving his love for you. So please don’t use this on a man unless you are ready for something serious.

    Thanks again.