Monday, July 28, 2014

Dear Feminists: This Is Why You Are In Trouble

The ongoing kerfluffle over the site #WomenAgainstFeminism, displaying selfies of a number of attractive young women who are all holding placards declaring why they don’t need feminism, has gone beyond the usual shame-and destroy tactics that the feminist establishment usually employ.  Instead what has happened as these women quietly but publicly disagreed with the status quo ideology and dis-identified themselves as feminists is remarkable.  Some have likened it to the feminist Berlin Wall crumbling, or an anti-feminist Arab Spring. 

It is telling that it took young women rebelling against feminist ideology in a public sphere to get prominent (and obscure) feminists all over the world to listen – if only for a moment – to the same things that most folks in the Red Pill/MHRA/MGTOW/PUA/OMG community have been saying, some of us for decades.  But when opinions that issue from the mouths of men are ignored or discounted simply because of our gender, when feminism refuses to engage in any meaningful dialog with those it purports to change, then its own unwillingness to participate in a debate it claims to want demonstrates the disingenuous nature of your ideology.

The shock and disgust displayed toward these young women by feminists is appalling.  They are treated as vapid and ignorant, young, dumb, and desperately seeking male attention by those who would dismiss their well-articulated positions.  The irony of this escapes not even thefeminists, themselves.  Some are even leaving their association with feminism.

But ladies, this is what the problem is.  Let me mansplain something to you, because you clearly missed something.  I’ll go ahead and do it in patronizing and patriarchal tones, so that you have an opportunity to scoff derisively as you read it, desperate for a hint of misogyny – us white male dissidents understand our role in your ideological drama, and I would hate to disappoint. 

Over and over in these face-palming critiques I keep reading of your utter horror as you saw one young woman after another (apparently) mis-understand what feminism “is about”, I hear you complain bitterly that these women are getting it wrong.  Feminism isn’t about (insert tragic misdiagnosis here) it’s about equality.  You quote the dictionary, chapter and verse, you quote great feminist minds of the past, inspirational voices who led you to realize what feminism “is about”.

Only, not everyone agrees with you.  And that’s making you batshit crazy.

There’s an understandable amount of schadenfreude in the Manosphere over this, but believe it or not, I’m not gloating.  I’m just vindicated.  Many of us predicted this sort of thing would happen, and gosh darn if it didn’t.

You see, the thing that is driving you crazy is that feminism is an ideology, but it also functions, in many social ways, like a cult or religion.  And while your intellectual inner circle has been preaching equality for years, regardless of the strides or gains you may have made, the fact is that your ideology’s public image has been tarnished badly in the meantime.  Not to put too fine a point on it, but you made the same mistake Republican candidates traditionally make.  In an effort to appease the loudest voices, and maintain the appearance of unity, you have allowed those voices to dictate the direction of the entire group – or at least its perception by the public.

There’s a reason that only a small minority of women identify as feminists these days.  The ideology has become so loaded with baggage from the culture wars of the past that adherence to it involves picking up that baggage . . . and that’s something that most women just don’t want to do.

Worse, two decades of systematic targeting of masculinity, in all of its guises, has managed to alienate nearly all men from your banner.  There was a time, in my fuzzy youth, when I may have identified myself as a “male feminist”, because I believed in equality too . . . but I believed in full equality: draft cards, equitable sentencing, and equal custody and all, and those were issues that feminism, alas, did not see as germane.
They sure as hell were germane to me.  And to a lot of other guys. 

Over the years, individual feminists and feminist-oriented groups made it quite clear that men were not welcome – we were part of the problem, and the more we tried not to be, the more you lashed out at us as individuals and as a class.  Whether you intended to or not, feminism as a movement became associated with the callous disregard of masculine values and the blanket disrespect for male issues.  You couldn't even let a bunch of guys get together and talk about male homelessness, suicide, and social issues without protesting and making death threats.  Classy, feminism.

We were supportive, once upon a time.  But what did we earn from that support?  You called us part of the Patriarchy, taunted us for our perceived privileges, and never spared the opportunity for shame and guilt about our gender.  We supported your reproductive freedoms and your right to own your own bodies, and you called us participants in “rape culture”.  When we threw up our hands and realized that there was no way for you to be happy with us, you called us “misogynists”. 

So we left.  There’s a reason that “male feminists” of any note are as scarce as hen’s teeth any more.  No one wants to be a male feminist.  You savage them with particular delight, when they persist in being male, and no man wants to be seen publicly working against the best interest of his gender.  Congratulations, ladies.  You’ve made “male feminists” an endangered species.

Like the Republicans, you’ve played to your base and alienated the mainstream.  People don’t associate feminism with positive values, anymore, and it’s not just Red State hicks and Southern politicians who feel that way.  Feminism was the ideology that spurred millions of women to divorce and break up their families, and many of us carry the scars of that decision.  Feminism made men fearful to even speak to women, much less relate to them in a professional manner.  While you may see the resulting domination of women in corporate positions of power as gratifying, understand that it was done at a price. 

You may see feminism as responsible for great strides in American and World history, and I can’t deny that.  So was Marxism, the ideological model feminism chose to co-opt – the one that equated men with the oppressing class and validated some feminists’ need to hate men as a class.  A lot of us take that personally.  Feminism’s unequal treatment of gender issues across the board has grown so egregious that protecting the virtue of 200 little African girls results in a global awareness campaign, while the brutal deaths of hundreds of boys in the same conflict earned no attention by feminism.

You can claim that feminism isn’t about hating men and punishing boys, Ladies, but the fact of the matter is that this is precisely how feminism is viewed by a broad plurality – if not a majority – of the men in America.  Not the progressive pals you keep around you to remind yourself you don’t technically hate all men, but the dude who changed your oil, mowed your lawn, stocked your groceries and passed you on the freeway, all of them have a disdain for feminism, as an ideology, that they would likely never speak to you about.  

You've attacked male sexuality with bloodthirsty abandon, belittling the "male gaze" and objecting to "objectification" - without understanding that objectification is as important to male sexuality as emotional context is to female sexuality.  Your relentless fight against "rape culture" has put you at odds with every heterosexual man in the country, as you rampage for the right to only be approached by attractive men, and demonize unattractive men by their "misogyny".  Feminism has been responsible for more male sexual guilt that the Catholic Church.  But you don't know that, because we stopped talking to you a long time ago.

Because speaking to feminists about feminism when you disagree with the culture that has sprung from the ideology is akin to speaking to a cult member.  Every stay-at-home mom who decided to spend her best reproductive years making a home and building a family with a loving husband has been called to task for her choice – “you could be so much more”, “why are you letting him keep you isolated?”, “don’t you want to prove you can make something of yourself?”, these are all the catty, snide little ways feminists have promoted your ideology. 

In seeking equal opportunities for women, feminism has denigrated the role of wife and mother that so many women desire.  Voicing a preference for Blue’s Clues over Black’s Legal Dictionary gets a woman pilloried in our post-feminist society, as you well know.  By placing careerism over the desire for a family, feminism has inadvertently doomed hundreds of thousands of successful career women to childlessness, as the “good” men they plan on settling for after they’ve established themselves in careers seek less-driven mates to be the mothers of their children.  The frustration among the professional class of feminist is palpable.  Yet feminism teaches them that it is men’s fault, or the fault of the Patriarchy, or ageism, or whatever rationalization is in vogue at the moment.

Those rationalizations, as thousands of women are discovering, don’t keep you warm at night. 
But not only has feminism alienated men of good will and mothers, feminism has consistently besieged one of the most hallowed areas of femininity: marriage.  In its efforts to protect women in abusive relationships, feminism has waged an unrelenting war against one of the pillars of femininity.  No, not all women want to get married – but for those who do, and there are a lot of them, feminism has successfully weakened the institution to the point where feminism has become the antithesis of a happy marriage.

Just watch how apologetically a feminist announces her engagement.  I had that pleasure, recently, and watching this woman squirm while she had to admit to her equally-feminist friends that she wanted a husband – not that she needed a husband, but (like a handbag or a new car) she wanted one – was an awkward moment.  Of course, she could not bring herself to actually say the word, “husband” – she said “partner” – and she instantly declared that she would not take his name.  Go girl.  I felt humiliated and emasculated on her bridegroom's behalf.  

But while I quietly congratulated her on her marriage, the fact is that feminism, regardless of its vaunted goal of equality, has consistently tarnished and weakened an institution that a majority of women hold sacred . . . and they have muddied the waters of non-feminist women considerably by their approach. That hasn't garnered feminism any positive public relations.

Men are reluctant and fearful to marry now, thanks in part to feminist-inspired pro-divorce culture, ala Eat, Pray, Love.  Feminism’s successful war on the patriarchal expectation of sex in marriage has removed the insulation married women once had from the Sexual Marketplace, making their husbands prey to predatory women and devaluing their own sexual contributions.  When feminism made it clear that a husband had no native right to his wife’s body, it also undermined the marital exchange to the point where she can no longer be certain of his fidelity.  Feminism is synonymous with divorce, not happy wives, in the real world beyond the ivory tower. 

(It might be helpful if feminism stopped treating the term "wife" like a death sentence.  Requiring a woman to apologize for her marriage and her husband, and then imposing a lot of humiliating restrictions that are going to be harmful to the marriage, doesn't win you many allies.  Feminism has made it possible where a little girl can grow up and be a great feminist anything . . . except a good wife.)

Feminism did itself no favors by encouraging the sassy self-esteem of two generations of girls.  While claiming white men had unearned privilege, feminism pushed the unearned privilege of white girls to the breaking point.  Many folks are anti-feminists not because they object to the ideals of feminism, but because they object to the conduct of feminists.  Young women who feel that they are entitled to pretty much anything they want, who trade on their feminism with threats of legal action or scandal to get their way, these women aren’t ‘empowered’ – they’re ‘bossy’.  That would be one thing if they were also highly competent and productive, but those are not qualities feminism has emphasized in its application. 

The writings of the Women Against Feminism are telling: to them (and to the rest of us) feminism is a bunch of angry women screaming shrilly about how the rest of the world needs to pay attention to them and give them what they want, in a judgmental, demanding way.  The rest of us don’t dislike feminism because we hate equality, we dislike feminism because for many of us some of the most unpleasant and difficult-to-work-with people we know are feminists. 

We see them not just as unhappy people, but people who have invested in their unhappiness to the point where they will only be happy when the rest of the world is just as unhappy as they are.  You want to see feminism perceived in a positive light again?  Create a way for a woman to be a happy feminist.  That’s going to be difficult with an ideology that, practically speaking, sees half of the human race as an enemy, but give it a shot.  Y’all are creative. 

Start by trying not to insult and demean anyone whose opinion you don’t like.  Feminism loves to call people names, from ignorant to backwards to stupid – and feminists excel at invective.  Tearing someone down verbally is a high feminist art, and most of us have been the object of that scorn at one time or another, deserved or not.  When you cannot have a discussion with a feminist without her snorting about your perceived privilege, or having her try to shame you into working against your best interest, then engaging in any kind of productive dialog is challenging. And demanding.  And usually self-defeating.  

So mostly we just . . . don't.  We ignore you.  We turn our backs on you and mostly we just don't entertain a feminist perspective in any sort of positive way anymore.  

As a man I have been called a plethora of vile names and had my character attacked by feminists, even what were supposed to be reasonable, academic discussions.  Feminists have a kind of argument cycle that they go through, I’ve observed, in which my intelligence, education, upbringing, and decency are first brought into question before they launch into outright misandry and emasculation.  At least half of such discussions end with them questioning my manhood – when I know for a fact how they would have reacted had I questioned their womanhood.  

I’m a big boy.  I’m not intimidated by shrill women who think their ability to “be strong” and “compete” lies in their willingness to insult another human being.  They have said things to me that, had we truly lived in world of equality, would have required them to settle the matter through seconds and over pistols.  But because feminists tend to hide behind "don't hit me, I'm a girl!" when they decide to engage in such verbal bloodsports, most wise men just . . . walk away.  We're men.  We know feminism hates us.

But the things that you’ve called these Women Against Feminism have been nothing short of vile.  This is what you have to say about these beautiful, intelligent women who disagree with your political ideology.  Women with three advanced science degrees are called “stupid and uneducated” because they dare to disagree with feminist ideology.  Women who have made conscientious choices about their lives are being castigated and threatened.  Women who have made up their own damned minds are being called idiots by other women in a fit of misogyny the Manosphere could never muster.

It is in your reaction to #WomenAgainstFeminism that you reveal yourselves, collectively: Feminism has hit the Wall.  No one is responding to your "nice" voice anymore, because you've burned all your bridges.  Now your very daughters are rejecting your ideology and recoiling in horror from the idea of a "feminist" life.  Yes, feminism is associated with misandry and reactionary man-hating, female entitlement and anti-male ideology in the minds of most people. 

EDIT: A few choice comments:

Emily Shire of The Daily Beast, stating that the movement’s criticism of feminism is “inane, unintelligent, and useless.”

Feminist writer Rebecca Brink published a satire of the campaign on her blog, calling Women Against Feminism “a crock of bullshit based on a misunderstanding of feminism and an ignorance of data and history.”

But like the 35 year old woman who is still trying to rock a miniskirt, you still think feminism is about equality.  No, it is not about equality, and hasn't been for a long time.  What you think feminism is and what it does in the real world are two entirely separate things, and your association with an ideology that is, in effect, anti-male, anti-marriage, and anti-freedom of thought is not doing yourselves any good.

There's some hope that feminism will redeem itself - plenty of women are offended at the things being done in the name of their gender, and want to re-claim the now-poisoned title of feminist.  But until feminists collectively take a good, long, hard look into the mirror and hold themselves accountable for the sins of their sisters in the name of their ideology, don't count on a hell of a lot of support from the victims of feminism.  We're not inclined to be charitable about that sort of thing.


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  2. I've grown to hate the word and how people seem to use it these days, but I think for once it actually fits here: the only thing I can think of in response to this post is "Powerful."

  3. As a 38 year old Spanish, that was educated to be a good feminist male, I have 3 sister and was mostly educated by females. I can tell you that you are totally right. From supporting women right to be equal in all ways, I have changed to be ready to walk away any time I am starting to have a "discussion" (just an attempt to shame me really) with any feminist. Here in Europe things are quite bad too. I endorse your post 100%

  4. "I’m not intimidated by shrill women who think their ability to “be strong” and “compete” lies in their willingness to insult another human being. They have said things to me that, had we truly lived in world of equality, would have required them to settle the matter through seconds and over pistols. "

    While not exactly those words I've been saying this for years, "Women have said things to me that had a man said them I'd be obligated to strike him." Even the most blue-pill of men have nodded their head in agreement to that.

  5. As a male raised in the American 1990s, I agree. You have found my voice and written it down. Thank you.

  6. But, you're wrong here. You see, feminism is about equality. It says so right in numerous feminist publications.

    Also, North Korea is a people's democratic republic, not a totalitarian cult of personality. It says so right in their newspapers.

    Can't you stupid MRA's read?

    1. War is peace
      Freedom is slavery
      Ignorance is strength
      Feminism is equality.

  7. Feminism:

    In theory, the radical notion that women are human beings.

    In practice, the deliberate belief that men are not.

  8. It is amusing that the #WomenAgainstFeminism movement was immediately derided as being orchestrated by MRA's by the Jazebels of the world. Heaven forbid any WOMEN actually decide to dissent with the word of feminist law all by their selves. Their shrill binary view of the world constantly betrays their own isms and hatred. They only have us vs them and they cannot accept a more nuanced version of the world that they themselves insisted upon creating.
    They cannot eat themselves soon enough.

    The other day I got into a long debate / argument with my older sister who lives in the US, (I live in Toronto, arguably the epicenter of politically correct LGBTQWERTY culture in North America). She is 6 years my Senior and as I said, in fairness to her, she has in fact grown up facing many challenges in her life. The argument started when she just tossed out something along the lines that feminism is an accepted good in society and we'd be hosed without it. My tongue could not be kept down with that kind of baiting.

    So we debated long and hard about the ups and downs of feminism and what it means to contemporary society and to young men in particular, of which she has two sons, both naturally Alpha. Now she is a bright woman, two PHD's and quite capable in her own right in the workplace, yet married at a young age, 23. As my sister I was prepared to play nicely with her and not proceed directly to the normal evisceration I might reserve for a run of the mill Misandrist on the street.
    It was sad to see her level of investment, nay, myopia in the movement. She was despite her intelligence quite intractable on ALL FRONTS regarding feminism. At best she could concede that perhaps, that contemporary feminists are perhaps too extreme and they are alienating a larger support base with their positions on things such as "rape culture" and such.
    It was disappointing that she could not see how this culturally pathologizes her own sons who both attend college. She could not see how it casts a pall of suspicion over them pre-emptively the minute they step on campus. She acknowledged that even if that was the case that this is comparable to the fear women must live with all the time, fear of assault etc. So when I flipped the script and said, "So when men like me choose not to hire women because they may potentially maliciously use allegations of sexual harassment to screw with me and my business do you not see how that hurts women? Can you imagine how being told constantly that you are simply a rapist in waiting that it may have a massively negative affect on your interaction with the opposite sex and it may greatly impede your life?".
    Well her retort, which was very disappointing was of course, "Well women have it worse when they live in fear of sexual assault all the time..".

    "So then you presume your sons are rapists?".

    "No of course not, Not all men are like that..."

    "Yet campus culture is that young men get two weeks of sensitivity training upon arrival at campus, and if anything at all happens with a woman under almost any circumstances on a campus that he is presumed to be guilty until proven innocent, so you think that's OK that all men are essentially presumed to be guilty and its OK to circumvent the rule of law, for your own sons?".

    "Yes it's worth it for women."

    Facepalm for me.

    She eventually had one point that I felt perhaps I could concede myself. She argued that politics in the US has become so extreme, so far off the scale, in both directions (She was clearly implying Right wing has gone bananas) that its OK if not imperative that leading feminists in fact are super extreme in their views, that the only way to fight extremism is with extremism.

    Eventually after 4 hours, she raised a white flag, said "I'm too tired to continue" and retreated to the hotel.

    Shaking myhead

    1. I'm surprised you didn't pull out a revolver, load it with a magnum bullet, and put the cold barrel in your mouth to pull the trigger.

      Women these days are trying to validated as princesses... Nazi princesses at that.

    2. It's quite sad that she clearly doesn't love her sons as much as she thinks she does.

    3. "She acknowledged that even if that was the case that this is comparable to the fear women must live with all the time, fear of assault etc."

      Well, that's exactly the narrative feminism has forcefed women with their entire life, so how can they possibly expect any other outcome than living in a constant state of fear??

    4. I pity your poor nephews, brother. They sound like they are going to grow up with major self-loathing issues simply for being men.

      Tough break indeed. What a toxic environment to be in, when your own mother is supportive of legislation that could conceivably incarcerate or otherwise have far-reaching ramifications for her own male children in circumstances that many college students find themselves in.

      "Yes it's worth it for women"

      Wat. -.-

    5. @Anonymous "Well women have it worse when they live in fear of sexual assault all the time.."

      Propaganda or the perpetuation of a paranoia culture in relation to womens safety, security and general harassment is not a debate or conversation point for your sibling. The statistics relating to the number of women assaulted publicly in relation to the total population of women in almost any area, is small. And is in all cases dwarfed by violent assaults against men. After all, men are about 80% of ALL violent assault victims.

      Has this kept men from traversing the dusk hours?


      Because even as the majority in relation to this subject, the total number of men "out & about" after dark dwarfs the percentage that become assault victims, many times over. Paranoia does not equal reality, and there is no rational thought within the concept of treating them as equals.

      In short: feelz aint realz

    6. Don't facepalm to hard. As former card carrying member of NOW who walked away from feminism 12 yrs. ago. I can assure you you've planted seeds that will grow. Just the fact alone that she argued with you till she was exhausted means you were making headway, but she wouldn't give in quickly because no one likes to admit that they were wrong or foolishly taken in. This won't happen overnight but remember to be open when she brings it up again.


  9. Femi-Nazi
    Don’t wear any make-up
    Or powder your nose
    Wear pants instead of skirts
    And no panty hose

    Wear your hair short, not long
    Don’t shave your armpits
    Must avoid at all costs
    All glamour and glitz

    Won’t need any perfume
    You don’t want a man
    You can do anything
    That any man can

    You’ll open your own doors
    Pull out your own chair
    Make your meals for one
    You don’t have to share

    You can keep your figure
    No babies for you
    When you want to have sex
    Your fingers will do

    Work late if you want to
    Your kitten will wait
    She never seems to mind
    When mommy is late

    Hate all men and women
    Who might disagree
    That there is no more use
    For the family

    How dare these idiots
    Try to have their say?
    Just label them sexist
    And turn them away

    Cuz you’re a feminist
    A progressive chick
    And life would be perfect
    If you just had a dick!

    © 2014 The Poet Darkling™


    Picture me walking down a path that walks beside a beautiful river holding the hand of the woman I love. I don’t talk down but rather with her. I’m in no way attacking anybody or defending anybody but merely expressing my opinions on the matter.

    Okay, first and foremost I need to know from all you feminists what exactly you’re trying to accomplish. What exactly do you stand for? What inequalities do you wish to address and resolve? I mean you have equals right, don’t you? I’m from Canada and the last time I checked, women have the same opportunities as us men do. I mean, are you not legally able to attend University the same as everybody else? Vote, obtain your driver’s license, insure your vehicles, and buy your homes just the same as everybody else? File for divorce? The same job opportunities are even presented to women as men. I mean the list goes on. Please tell me where the inequality comes into play? I work for an Oil and Gas company as an accountant and I can personally tell you I didn’t get the position because I was a man. I was presented an opportunity to go to school and I took it just as it’s the privilege to every other man or woman who wishes to utilize it. In my office, roughly half of the staff whom I’m honored to work with consists of women. These women are beautiful, very educated, hardworking and most importantly of equal status. As a matter of fact, there are thousands of women in my city who are more educated than I, as well have better paying jobs. Is that not proven practice of the equal rights you so desperately seek for?

    1. but you see you dont have equal rights as a man in canada...

      Canadian charter of rights section 15-1, 15-2

      when you went to school did you know that the majority of female students have 10x as much funding available tyo them as you do?

      did you know that if your wife beats you up there are more shelters for Donkeys in the world than there are for male DV victims?

      Just sayn...

    2. Women have better than equal rights but for feminists that is not enough. They want equality of outcomes, but only in carefully selected areas such as company boardrooms, banking, law, politics. They do not want equality of outcomes down the mines, in the sewers, on oil platforms, building skyscrapers .... you know, anything that is dirty or dangerous.

    3. I agree 100% Bigger Brother. They want to be treated of equal stature and yet they also cry "I'm a woman" when it's best suited to them. Can't have both ladies.

    4. Please read the twitter thread #yesallwomen and you will realise a bit more what it is like to be a woman, even in a country with equal rights by law :) Please, it is impossible to explain but horrific to understand. and while it does not apply to all men by any means, it Does affect all women.
      - A woman

    5. I truly hope that women are treated around the world as I treat them. I believe women to be very intelligent and hard working respectful and kind. When it come to authority and physical strengths and an over all presence, women are smaller and physically weaker. I get that. I still give women the respect they seek and deserve and have earned through countless fighting over the decades. My one and only question to every single feminist out there.

      Hypothetically speaking as I believe women to be equals, are you willing to risk losing everything you have to gain in society as a woman if equal were granted?

    6. Sorry my grammer was awful in my previous post.

  11. I see many women driving heavy machinery as well. Many women work up on the oil rigs and make a lot of money doing labor intensive jobs, live in camps and are offered apprenticeships just as us men. Once again I fail to see the inequality. Are you looking for supremacy over the male race? That’s an honest question. What is it that you seek? Where does this burning desire come from?

    My fiancée has a degree as well and has an incredible job working for the Government. She drives a car, she loves to grocery shop (without me because I’m a distraction), she cooks, she cleans (I help of course), and, dare I say, she even does my laundry! The best part of all this is that she is happy and enjoys taking care of me in ways she loves to as I do the exact same for her. Funny, I bet you’re sitting there thinking I’m a chauvinistic pig right. Shall we get into the minor and major details of what I bring to the relationship? I mean if she has a long day at work and I say “baby, did you want me to rub your feet while you take a load off?” that makes me a pretty nice man correct? Is that to be expected? If I have a bad day at work, or rough time dirt biking in the mountains or a hard kickboxing workout and come home to a cup of tea and a neck massage with nothing in return, does that make her weak? Does that make her an immediate arch nemesis to the feminist world?

  12. The truth of the matter is, men are men and women are women. With 7 billion people in the world, you’re going to get the good, the bad and the ugly. Murderers (men and women), rapists (men and women), liars (men and women), thieves (men and women), athletes (men and women), teachers (men and women), you get where this is going. I personally have never thought I was better than anybody let alone women; however, I fail to understand how any of this is relevant in the western world we live in today. Equal opportunity is here for the taking.

    May the smartest people receive the highest GPA’s, may the best candidates receive the job, may the strongest people lift the most, the weakest people struggle to stand and the wealthiest person bask in their glory while the poorest of people beg for money. We have only this life to live and I say this to anyone as it’s what I truly believe. We all only have one short allotted time here on earth. None of us chose to be here but we are all trying to make the best of it. Choose your battles carefully and no matter what battle it is, it always chips away at your mental and physical health. It might take you laying on your death bed to realize you could have spent your life with less animosity and more peace but I’m only living through personal experiences and can only answer for myself.

  13. I will end this by saying that I don’t care if you’re a woman, man, brown, or black. If I’m labelled racist or prejudice it will be towards liars, thieves and self-entitlement. Women are women and men are men. It will never change. The double standards that exist today will exist for both sexes for years to come and that’s just a fact of life. My undesirable advice to anyone who reads this if you chose to take it is something I learned a long time ago from somebody very special to me.

    “When you go through life as a block of ice trying to change people, places or things, every time you become distraught in any way shape or form, you lose a piece of ice and eventually there will be nothing left. When you live your life like a peaceful river in which adapts to the ever changing world and the obstacles in it, you will preserve energy, peace of mind and prolong your life. Choose your battles carefully”

  14. My favorite gem from Women Against Feminism -- "I don't need feminism because my boyfriend treats me right."

    Vapid morons like this deserve to be mocked for absolutely not getting what feminism is about while proudly speaking out against it to the applause of drooling trolls who comment on how "hot" they are compared to the "man-hating" feminists.

    That FB page epitomizes exactly why feminism is more important than ever.

    So thanks for that at least.

    1. Your derision, disrespect, condescension and insults pretty much validate everything that they're saying about feminism and feminists.

      So thanks for that at least.

    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    3. have fun munching carpet then, no man will want you if you're a feminist.

    4. Do feminists have any idea what men go through regarding the double standards of today's society? Double standards exist between both sexes and minor and major scales. If you are feeling belittled, I suggest you find a better man.

    5. As well, why is that you think your opinion of this woman matters? Do you even know what Vapid means? That makes no logical sense as you have never spoke face to face with her. How do you know she is vapid? How do you know she isn't just a ray of Sunshine? That is ignorant beyond believe and it is simply catastrophic to Feminists around the world. Show a little bit of class will you. Thank you.

    6. You're just not listening to what the world and the women of the world are telling you. You're trying to force feed men and women around the world your beliefs and moral values regarding feminism. Explain to me exactly how Hitler was any different?

    7. "That FB page epitomizes exactly why feminism is more important than ever."
      And that statement is the reason why feminism is held in such contempt. Because it refuses to accept that people have the right not to subscribe to it. It refuses to even listen to those who hold contrary and conflicting views.

      In the 21st century more women go to college and get more degrees than men. Young women earn more than young men. Women get 3 times more spent on their healthcare than men. Women live longer than men. Female criminals get lighter sentences than men for the same crime. Women have parenting rights, men have none.

      So a guy doing a dangerous job on a crane catcalls a pretty girl walking down the street and this is somehow "exactly why feminism is more important than ever."
      Yeah, right!

    8. This comment has been removed by the author.

    9. This comment has been removed by the author.

    10. That is a FACT too. Well said Bigger Brother. You think you're making a difference in the world when the reality is you're just isolating yourselves. That's a fact too but you're too bull headed to realize you're making people dislilke you and giving the word Feminism an awful reputation.

  15. This is great! I so agree, and thank you for writing it! I just found the Women Against Feminism site and went from there to here. As a happily married woman with a master's degree I'm one of those weird, stupid ones being targeted. Can't tell you how many times I was asked why I wasted my degrees when I decided to stay home, and how many times I have blessed my husband for letting me instead of insisting on a second income! Keep up the good work, guys!

  16. This is the first time that I've seen an MRA acknowledge the choice of wives and mothers. For that, I cannot thank you enough.

    Most of the time, they seem to take the feminist philosophy that we should all be 'equal' and 'same'. (Maybe I'm reading too much written by MGTOWs)

    But the fact is that women cannot express the totality of their femininity without men. I couldn't be a SAHM/homeschool mom without the support of my husband.

    But I highly doubt that he'd have given me that support without my appreciation, support of his career, and years of working my butt off for him, the kids, and our home.

    I just cannot tell you how much I appreciate hearing a MRA acknowledge that women are not men and that this is okay. You have my sincerest gratitude.

    1. Last time I checked, being a full time mom is much more difficult than a "day job." Congradulations on your family and your success.

    2. Most enlightened MGTOW understand that being a father/husband IS a valid choice for a Red Pill man . . . if the right woman is involved. Sounds like your husband is one lucky fella!

    3. Thank you, guys. There is no competition between hubby and myself. Both of us give 100% to what we're doing. He's put in 16 hour days and killed himself to further his career and I've put in every minute that was necessary (even nights with sick kids) to raise our family and take the burden off of him so that he could rest when he got home to a hot meal. I get a longer lunch and a nap some afternoons. He gets a solid night's sleep every night. And that's the key. Both people giving 100% to make a great partnership. If he'd had to come home, help with the housework and make dinner, he wouldn't be able to progress so far with his job. If I'd had to earn money, I couldn't have raised such fantastic human beings for society. It takes two complementary beings to make a marriage work.

    4. And if a woman doesn't want to do that she is mocked and ridiculed by men and anti-feminists...and admired by feminists.

      I do what I want (regardless of outstanding opinions) and it so happens to be Med School.

      Everyone should be able to pursue their life how they want :)

    5. She is. Read carefully. ..DOCTOR

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  18. Well said.
    I've been to the fbook page to try and work this nonsense out...

    Most people on there are describing feminism as their belief/opinion/politial position... but then say they are against feminism!! Mad as a box of frogs.

    They should be saying "I don't need a dictionary because..." and then some random words: Of which they don't know the meaning of!

    Personally, I'm a woman against raincoats.

    (By raincoats I mean war, BTW)

    1. Or perhaps they are rightly identifying with the ideals of feminism while strongly objecting to its present presentation and ideology. Try to give it more than just a few minutes on FB. One would think it would deserve at least that much attention.

    2. I have given it more than a few minutes... The people spouting off there are not capable of intelligent debate. They don't understand what words mean, on the whole. They are constantly looking for an opportunity to be offensive about those fictional (or at least very rare) unshaven, butch and nasty 'feminist' monsters.

    3. Yet they are keenly aware of the practical realities that feminism has forced upon them. it is not the femininity or sexuality of feminists that offends, it is their behavior and their perspective of males and masculinity that is offensive.

    4. My sincerest apology for the deletion of my previous content to anonymous sender with your response.

    5. Feminism is not about equality but about female supremacy. It always has been:

  19. Whoever said that a feminist cannot have a family and stay at home? Acknowedging this as a difficult and worthwhile occupation, not less worthy of being the breadwinner: Is a feminist notion!!

    1. Uh...most feminists. If by "have a family" you mean "have a husband, just one, and keep him".

    2. 'Most feminists'? You mean anyone who isn't sexist? Which I would hope to be most of the western world.

  20. I wrote this piece of sarcasm shortly after the stabbings a few months back in response to the explosion of anti men comments on facebook.

    I know not all men are misogynists, I love men, I have friends that are men but maybe this is an opportunity to sit down with all boys teach them that this is wrong and that these propensities and cultural norms simply are not acceptable. How can one possibly be opposed to having this long overdue conversation ?
    I know not all Blacks are Criminals, I love Black people, I have friends that are Black but maybe this is an opportunity to sit down with all the little Black people and teach them that this is wrong and that these propensities and cultural norms simply are not acceptable.
    I know not all Jews are wealthy misers, I love Jews, I have Friends that are Jewish but maybe this is an opportunity to sit down with all young Jews and teach them that this is wrong and that these propensities and cultural norms simply are not acceptable.
    I know not all Muslims are...
    I know not all Homosexuals are...
    I know not all Women are........

    .....This is not the way to go about it.

  21. I am thrilled to see a turn around starting. As a single adoptive mother who works full time and has a village of friends and stay at home moms supporting my decision, and my MALE friends also providing me emotional support and guidance, I am appalled at the treatment of men by feminists as well as the treatment of women who WANT home and children and marriage. When I look at my son, my fathers, my uncles, my nephews, I do not see "rapists and oppressors". And if that makes me vapid and stupid and ignorant, so be it. I ENJOY cooking meals for my single father friends and their children. I love that I can barter homemade cookies or pie in exchange with help to fix a fence or replace a shingle from my roof. Men bring A LOT to the table, physically and emotionally. Alienating, belittling and emasculating them is wrong. And it only hurts us, as women.

    1. as a tradesman, This!

      i am seeking barter with stay at home mom types ALL THE TIME, i will work for frozen dinners and home baked cookies all day long, most do not believe me and think its sex or something stupid and fishy..
      to give background i used to do this where i grew up and had a ton of female friends who would cook and raise gardens, when something needed to be done or moved or fixed or when they needed reno`s ect they paid in frozen food.(real food not garbage, do not try and barter with garbage food)

      i wish more women would figure this one out....

    2. We as men need to hold women accountable. The only ones who don't hold women accountable are the mangina assholes that bow down to them.

  22. extraordinarily good writing, extraordinarily good content. An absolute killer essay that completely resonates with my experiences. Thank you

  23. Feminism IS a Big Business. It is concerned with only one thing, preservation and expansion of its own existence.
    Feminists are FIBBers

    Be Egalitarian. Seek justice, equity and freedom for all.

  24. Anyone who fights for the welfare of other people, but only if they have the 'right' genitals is a bigoted piece of putrescent puke.

    Which is a very definition of Feminism.

  25. Excellent article. Very well said. Why don't the feminists tell their female critics the equivalent of what they tell us. "You live in your parents basement and have a large vagina."

    1. Feminists have stretched out pussies,can't get laid and live in their mom's basement.

  26. Before I say anything, I would like to make it known that I am man.
    I didn't like the article at all. I feel that it started off with some good points but then ended up seeming to assume that we live in a world were all are equal, and that overt sexism does not exist.
    There was one particular point made that really disgusted me
    "When feminism made it clear that a husband had no native right to his wife’s body, it also undermined the marital exchange to the point where she can no longer be certain of his fidelity."
    I am not married (yet), my partner and are engaged and I very much agree with the concept of marriage - committing to each other before the eyes of God and the community (or just the community if one is an atheist). The statement made in the article however seems to be glorifying marriage in its worst form - that being the transfer of ownership of the woman from the father to the husband.
    Just because I am married does not mean I have the right to climb on top of my wife and have sex with her because I want to, without considering whether she wants to or not. That is rape regardless of martial status. So do you have a problem with feminism for encouraging women to say no to their partner when they don't feel like it? That sex should be had out of love and desire,rather than duty? the phrase 'lay back and think of England' comes to mind.
    For a woman to say I don't feel like having sex tonight, is no different to man saying to his wife I don't feel like going to (insert event) today. Both are far more enjoyable if each person wants to do it. And as I said before rape is rape, marital status doesn't change that fact. Would one say that domestic violence does not exist between married couples?
    Sure domestic violence occurs against men, but despite what many here seem to be unwilling to accept, is that despite all the best efforts of community groups, churches, political organizations, the state and (dare I say the word) FEMINISTS, domestic violence is overwhelmingly committed by men against women. In Australia services for women suffering domestic violence are being cut, and that is both shelters for those wishing to leave, as well as the counselling services that seek to resolve the issue and keep families together.

    1. That's not it, at all. Marriage requires compromise. Right now, I'm in the man's position. I have a hormonal imbalance that sets me off. My husband isn't as interested as I am. (There is no man who could be as interested as I am at the moment.) What *I* would like is for my husband to have some empathy with my situation and understand that he'd be doing me a HUGE favor by helping me out from time-to-time.

      That's what you're not getting. LOVE. COMPASSION. EMPATHY. At what point do we acknowledge that we are our partner's ONLY sexual outlet and take mercy on their physical condition? Your partner has vowed to keep sex between the two of you. Isn't there a point, where you've tied someone to you in monogamy, where both people should at least be considerate to the fact that you have nowhere else to go?!

      You say that it's selfish and imply that it's 'rape' to say, "Help me. "I'm not going to take my needs outside of this relationship, but I *do* have needs. Can I at least get a hand, here?"

      Maybe it's selfish to bind another human being to you sexually, then refuse to give them sex. That sounds like a pretty shitty thing to do to a human being.

    2. Ah and it is that opinion which gets my fiance lots of sweet-time. I may be tired and not in the mood...but the fact he doesn't force himself on me, but lets me know he wants it...but doesn't /expect/ it - actually works a lot better.

      The lady about mentioned it is a compromise. So how is a compromise someone demanding and forcing?

      And I am pretty sure he enjoys it a lot more with a completely willing participant...who is doing it not because it's /expected/ or that he is /entitled/ to sex. But because the partner /wants/ to.

    3. Roll over and take it like a man then. Jeez. Is this the material we have to work with in this country?

  27. Another thing that seems to be glossed over is women being sexually harassed - or perhaps people here like to think of it as 'giving compliments'. I thought the following link made some good points:
    My partner receives so much harassment when she goes out in public, that it actually makes her very anxious to do something as simple as go to the shops or catch a train on her own. She gets things called at her, abuse and cat calls, she has had people try to force themselves upon her physically and so forth. There seems to be a thought in society that being a woman in public alone is an invitation to men for to do the above mentioned. Sure it is not every man that is like that, certainly not the majority, but any at all is to much. This whole site seems to glorify and justify such behavior. Maybe some women like it, but then some people like smoking but that doesn't justify going around blowing cigarette smoke in a strangers face because some people smoke.
    Then of course there is sexism in the workplace, were (again, despite what has been said here previously) men hold dominant positions, and use their positions to receive sexual 'favors' from women in order to advance their careers - such as in the armed forces. And again, despite the claim 'women crying rape for ligation and personal profit', it is that claim which leads many to dismiss true and honest situations where rape has occurred. Most women are too afraid to come forward about such situations also, due to shame, and also because more often than not, even when rape is proved, people tend to blame the victim 'why where you walking out late at night on your own', 'the way you're dressed', and 'you had to much to drink' to name a few. Those comments wouldn't be valid if someone was violently bashed while walking home through a park, so why for rape?
    I don't believe it is an issue of feminism be misused or misunderstood by a vast majority of those that claim to be feminists, the real issue is people (men and women) not being able to accept that society is that bad and instead finding more comfort in putting down those that seek to highlight the problems. And of course there are those that are guilty of the above actions who refuse to accept that their actions are wrong and hurtful.
    I consider myself to be a feminist. I love my partner and it makes me sad that she faces the drama's she does through no fault more than just being a woman. Same as for my mother and my sister. Any man who truly loves the women in their lives should feel the same.

    This site and the vast majority of the comments made here seem to be by 'sexist apologists' whom are confused about either justifying sexist behavior, or that sexist behavior doesn't exist. Make up your mind because otherwise you all appear to be no more than a pack of hypocrites.

    1. What you are discussing is not the norm, much as feminists try to tell us it is. It is not really a gender or feminist issue either, rather it is a case of some people having bad manners and showing little respect for others. We all suffer these in some form or another from time to time, it is hurtful but we get over it and move on with our lives rather than wallowing in victimhood. The world is not perfect and never will be. Get over it.

    2. Have you ever been raped? Do you think rape is a trivially issue that is overblown? As I said however 'sexist apologist'.

    3. You Acknowledge there is a problem, yet rather than solve it you instead choose to justify the problem and tell those that suffer it to put up with it. And assuming you are a
      The issue could be racism - would you say the same to a black person who was upset that people shouted racial slurs at them all the time? or they were physically assaulted for nothing more than being black?

    4. I acknowledge that crimes (and specifically sex crimes) exist.

      I disagree with the notion that these crimes are systematic in nature and are byproduct of some specific "maleness" of modern culture - as feminists claim as per Partiarchy theory.

      Thus I insist that these crimes are threated just as any crime is - systematically eradicated through conventional policing aqnd application of law, BUT without inconviniencing law-abiding citizens and promoting profiling (specifically - gender-profiling).

      I am a man - in full appreciation of my male sexuality, my male character and my male culture.

      If these things inconvinience someone in some way, I am ready for constructive dialogue on how we, as grown adults, can co-exist with each other while staying true to ourselves.

      What I am NOT doing, is I am NOT going to change, just because someone feels, she is entitled for it for some past transgressions of some other guys.

      What I am NOT doing, is I am NOT going to change, just because in the day of yore, under different cultural standards and different cultural (and legal) code, I was expected to - just because of my gender.

      What I am not doing, I will NOT support people, who demand that other men change just because of the previous two items and for no other good reason. I will however support those men however I can.

    5. I am not going to change either. In fact if anything, feminism has made me dig my heels in to celebrate and be proud of my masculinity. I refuse to accept any guilt that feminism tries to impose on me for the actions of a few bad men, just as I do not blame all women for the divisive and destructive actions of feminists.

    6. Hard to be proud of your masculinity in the company of people who consider all men oppressors and rapists. Good luck with that, though.

    7. Gardener of Eden is a brainwashed mangina. Wait until he lands in divorce court. When that happens he will get a royal fucking education,a hell of an education.

    8. @GardenerofEden,

      I'd like to play off of what Anonymous said. He is spot on. This happened with me and it wasn't until I took a deeper look into WHY, that I found the answers.
      But lets look at it through the eyes of previous generations. IMO, feminism has done an excellent job of erasing the innate knowledge that the genders had of each other and restating those understandings as negative oppressive ideas for women.
      For instance, a mother 60 yrs ago might tell her daughter on her wedding night to remember her wifely duties.
      Was this a mother trying to oppress or was this her way of passing down knowledge about how to tend to a husbands needs?
      Young men upon their marriage were reminded that they were a man now with responsibilities and he was expect to provide for his wife and her needs.
      What has changed is the message and the lack of understand about the needs of each gender. What hasn't changed is the message the young man gets. He still carries all the responsibilities whereas young women now have none.

      I agree with the others GoE, you sound young and idealistic, but reality has a way of bring one around but that can only come with time and experience. We'll see you around.

      Oh, and your girlfriend feeling so anxious whenever she goes out. I call BS on that.
      She is either playing on your sympathies, really weak emotionally which means she really does need a man, playing you to see how you will respond, it's called a fitness test; or she is giving off some serious vibes that let men know the attention is welcomed. I was and still am a fairly good looking woman who is very feminine, while I do get a rare comment now days I still get looks even while on my husbands arm. But I have never, ever, ever, felt threatened.


    9. As a woman I could careless if I get cat-calls or whistled at (I'll mostly ignore it)...just don't touch me.

      You are free to look all you want just don't act on those impulses.

      Crowded subway trains are fine (I get it) but when I feel a man's hand slip between my thighs (which has happened on more than one occasion) - I will slug you.

    10. @GardenerOfEden - I have actually been raped. As a child by an abuser grandfather and as an adult by my wife. If she wanted sex and I said no, she would wait until I was asleep, make me hard then mount me. If I woke up to it and said no she never stopped. I know it sounds strange, and looking back on those times with what I know now I would never deny her sex ever again, but I didn't know women could rape men. I was a firm believer that it was impossible to be raped by a woman as a man because if you are not aroused then you cannot get hard. I was wrong.

  28. A great piece! However, one phrase should perhaps be re-written:
    "In seeking equal opportunities for women, feminism has denigrated the role of wife and mother that so many women desire." should probably be corrected to "In seeking equal and better than equal outcomes for women, ....." because feminism is in reality a supremacist movement.

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  30. @gardenerofeden
    I am the guy who wrote the bit about the debate with my sister over feminism.
    I understand where you are coming from but I beg to disagree on a number of fronts. I too am a man. I too once upon a time could have been called a male feminist. I too supported the broad goals of equality for all that the movement presumptively held up to the world some time ago. It was logical and fair.
    My issue with your statements and your position is your level of self delusion. You are at a time in your life when it pays for you to delude yourself into imagining that relationships in this day and age are truly egalitarian and equalist. That indeed no man has a "right" to his wife's body over and above her wishes in terms of marital sex. The truth is pretty much everyone here I imagine agrees with that. Nobody here espouses rape or sexual assault, e.g. unwanted sexual attention from anybody, period.

    The issue that is being spoken to here broadly is the lie that separates the idea of contemporary marriage from its reality. Women, broadly speaking, rely upon getting a mate for marriage in particular under the "traditional conception of marriage". By this I mean they allow men to think that once married that men and women will have a more relaxed time of their relationship, that things will run smoothly as a projection forward in time of their current state emotionally and physically and that by marital contract agreed to in front of God, friends and family that newlyweds will commit their bodies, minds and spirits dutifully to each other until death do you part.
    The reality is quite different. This is a dance done by women, both consciously and unconsciously, supported by popular culture and other women. The reality is that once into marriage, and once a woman has secured HER interests, yours will cease to matter, no matter how high minded and socially good she may be. you may find yourself seeking the support both emotional and physical of your wife in the future when you most need it. You'd like to rely on your soul-mate and BFF yes? Well I am sorry gardener but by your own term, you will find that you cannot rely upon the support that was bound by contract and by your life long commitment. No amount of energy, love and understanding, no amount of dish washing, stroking her hair and debating the merits of intersectional feminism is going to undo 300 million years of biological evolution. If you fail to heed the words of this site, MMSL, and perhaps rationalmale, as much as you may disagree with them, they speak enduring truths and they will apply to you as they are universal.
    Your love, well her vag will dry up and probably shoo you away if you maintain your current course, for her mind, specifically her hind brain will have secured the second great requirement of her biological requirements which is shelter and security. (That's you and your paycheque BTW). you ill find all too soon that your marriage is not a projection of your current relationship trajectory. No, it is a course charted by her and her alone, she will have unilaterally and retroactively renegotiated the terms of your marital contract and thanks to feminism, you will have NO say in the matter. You will not be able to negotiate affection or desire with her no matter how eloquent your prose and argument. You will become an average frustrated chump, AFC.

  31. So now you will be stuck in a largely celibate relationship with a "wonderful woman who has going through some life changes". and you will find yourself deflated somewhat, that buoyancy you feel now in her presence will have changed to a sinking feeling that you are somehow trapped into something you did not sign up for.
    When you get to that point, I encourage you to come back here and have another look at what is being discussed. you will find that nobody condones rape or sexual assault, but you will find they embrace a ruthlessly pragmatic view of the world, one that is built upon a foundation of practical, empirical scientific knowledge about how women and men act towards each other in all stages of life and relationship. You will find that what you read in the paper everyday and what they teach in women's studies courses and what they preach on Dr Phil and Oprah, well it's all just bullshit and none of it serves YOUR interests. When you get back here in a few years parched with sexual thirst and wondering how your wife was cured of sex by wedding cake, we will welcome you back with open and understanding arms. We will teach you how it really works, we will help you move forward in life moving through the difficult steps of deconstructing the world as you know it know and help you to erase the lies you have been fed your whole life. We will help you to rebuild your life on YOUR terms.
    Moreover, we will teach you how to re-ignite your wife's passions so that you will no longer resent her and the lies she sold you willfully or otherwise. We will teach you how to accept the reality of 300 million years of evolutionary biology and how to use that to get all that you want in life, without negotiation, without force, without coercsion, without shame, without any of the tactics that feminists use every single day to get what they want. (I can assure you that if you try those tactics upon a feminist you will here the most shrill of blowback and will be deemed a creepy nice guy and shut off from all but the most piteous and rare of sexual congress).
    So go get married, enjoy the slide for a few years, and one night when you are drunk and crying to your buddies that you haven't had a blowjob in months, that you have sex once a month, that she is always texting her "BFF" 48 times a day and keeps her phone locked and you found a TINDR account. At that point, call us, reach out, come back to us here in the manosphere and we will welcome you home with supportive smiles and open arms, we will help you become a man like you never were before. You will never again feel the need to apologize for that penis of yours.
    See you soon.

    1. //You will never again feel the need to apologize for that penis of yours.

      Fun fact: I have discovered Manosphere not through some traumatic event or by trying to get better with women.

      Actually, I was reading sex ed. blogs written by mostly feminists or at least feminist-leaning authors(!) and I was thinking:

      "Human socio-sexual interactions sure is an extremely exiting topic!
      I wonder where I could learn more on that subject... without being made to feel like a despicable oppressive scum of the Earth by the author" :)

      Feminists would be amazed, what a little respect and civility can do to a man.

    2. @Anonymous
      That is the most miserly thing that I have ever read. Are you a divorcee? I am sorry to hear about your poor experiences with women, dare I say, maybe it is something to do with the feeling that you are somehow owed something extra as a result of your perceived manliness? I think the biggest joke is that this whole 'masculinist' doctrine that has come about purely as a response to feminism is exactly what it claims feminism to be, that is 'sexual chauvinism'. Which is just the responses I have received for my posts. Exactly no different from what is accused of feminists of doing. Even to the point of having my own sexuality and masculinty attacked:
      Masculist ManJuly 30, 2014 at 12:06 PM
      Gardener of Eden is a brainwashed mangina. Wait until he lands in divorce court. When that happens he will get a royal fucking education,a hell of an education.

      I fail to see how that is any different to the stances of female chauvinism (which has been mislabeled as feminism).
      And of course the other thing you have done (also being typical to female chauvinism) is put my partner down and accusing her of somehow being dominant of me and my ideologies purely because she is a woman (if at all).
      Female chauvinism: man just wants woman for sex and house work
      Male chauvinism (as expressed by yourself): Woman just wants man for money
      And not to mention the idiocy of your sexist preconceptions of both women and men - her "texting bff'' 'tinder account' 'gold digger'. him 'drinking with the buddies complaining about lack of sex after marriage'.
      It must drain you of so much energy to feel like that constantly and having that suspicion of women as being out to get you and manipulate you for what you have (or what you did have). I can assure you that women have been ripped off by men too!
      And quite clearly it is still a serious issue for you hence the need put on the old recruitment spiel.
      But I am actually quite offended by what you wrote about my partner and she was equally upset, because funnily enough my partner does have a bff... ME! If there is any relationship advice I can offer, for meaningful longstanding relationships is open communication with your partner - not with your drinking buddies. One thing I know is not to take relationship advice from single people and especially not divorcees (just as you don't take financial advice from a bankrupt). I would suggest that if you want to mend a relationship, or commence a new one (a romantic, be it a man or a woman) you talk to people who are sustaining long relationships. If there is one thing you will find, it is that they don't go on the internet and moan about their partner for being the opposite sex, in fact a great deal their lives is held private from others, for if your wife (or husband) is your best friend, why do you need anyone else's contribution on the state of your relationship? A marriage is between two people not seven! (unless of course you have children... or you're a mormon!)
      If you really want to understand women, you will do much better to talk to a woman, rather than looking on a blog that view them as a completely different species. You do know that you come from a woman? And if you a have sister, you may very well be surprised to learn that you came from the same mother (and father of course!).

    3. As I said you are wasting a lot of energy having such a blanket distrust and contempt of women, I strongly suggest you put your energy in to something more worthwhile and necessary, firstly, healing your wounds and coming to terms with the real reasons for the breakdown of your relationships, and acknowledging that they were the result of two individuals not being matched, as opposed to women trying to manipulate men, and learning to have the ability to not impose your past experiences on strangers whom have nothing in common to the characters of your own story.
      Then, once you have done that you can focus on the real fight
      - that being class warfare. because while you are here moaning about women being a bunch of gold diggers and trying to steal your money, capitalists really are taking your money... and they will take the house, the car, and the kids!
      So while you are trying to find a woman willing to subdue herself to your expectations, you are being subdued to the expectations of the state.
      You would also do well to remember that whilst you have been hurt at some stage in your life (presumably by a woman), they too have been hurt. Maybe I completely wrong and you haven't been hurt but are just scared of being hurt, well I can assure you that women have just as equal a fear as you do!
      Recognizing we live in an unbalanced world in the favour of men does not mean men have to be ashamed of being men (I am sure I said something along those lines in my original comment). I can guarantee you that I am not ashamed of being a man and to be ashamed of that serves no person to anyone. Just as I am against racism, I am not ashamed of being a white European. I have a enough foresight to see that the hurt that has been inflicted upon others was not done so because of sex or race, but because of drive for wealth by the exploiting classes. Racism and sexism being two tools used to divide us (the exploited) and keep us to busy fighting amongst one another to do anything about it.

    4. Really? You think the answer to our problems is . . . Marxism?!

      Men come to the Red Pill Room because they are focusing on the real fight: the struggle to explore and enjoy their own masculinity on their terms. They ARE improving themselves here - without feminism, Marxism, or other ideologies. And I'd strongly debate that we live in an unbalanced world "in the favour of men" - that's feminist propoganda. Ask the 70% male homeless population how favorable they find the world, or the male domestic violence survivors denied shelters because of feminist agitation.

    5. Ah yes you assume me to be a bitter woman hating divorcee who feels he must denigrate women to be happy or find solace in the company of men on a web site full of misogyninsts.
      sadly you are mistaken, sadly for you not for me however.
      I was nearly a divorcee, my marriage followed a familiar arc. I did marry my BFF and I made pretty much all those mistakes that I have predicted for you, why because I had precisely the same world view as you. I have a mother, two sisters, a daughter even, I have been quite happy and successful in my dating life prior to marriage, so I refute your thinly masked, all too typical claim that I am to paraphrase "A dickless bitter loser".
      but despite my fairly decent working knowledge of women prior to marriage, somehow I still went through that sad arc downwards myself, I nearly came to be divorced despite my enduring love for my wife. But you see it was eventually finding the red pill that indeed saved my relationship with her. she who I might add was also a pretty smart and committed feminist. once I learned of the red pill and more importantly I did the hard work required to deconstruct my understanding of the world that I had been fed for 40or so years. Once I did that work and I started to take ownership of my life on my terms with this new knowledge and once I started to do a lot of the hard work involved, that most femenists scoff at, alarmingly my life got far better as did my marriage.
      Once I accepted the realities of our biological motivations and how they shape everyone's thinking but more importantly how it shapes our actions and I began to act according to those principals, my life got way better. I don't think anything less of the women in my life as a result, no, I simply understand them far better and now I can take a pragmatic and sensible approach to how I deal with them. My wife loves it too. Once I shared this knowledge with her and she came to understand it, because you know she's a well educated bright and pragmatic woman. Once the cloth was taken from her eyes she became a far happier person. with herself, with me, with the world she lives in. I didn't have to push or cajole or convince her, I simply laid before her a few simple ideas and let her run with them. A few months later and I can say I have not seen her this happy in the 11 years of our marriage. For good measure, our 2 kids are really happy also.
      So I made my predictions about your relationship based on your world view and the certainty of her biology. I made those predictions knowing you are far more similar to me and my relationship arc than you would care to admit. I made those predictions in on the basis of the certainty and ubiquity of our own biology both male and female. I now know that there are certain things one must do to make a relationship work, both ways and those things have almost nothing to do with what pop culture and by extension, feminists tend to espouse.
      I know perfectly well that you have no intent on taking my advice right now as it is an affront to your ego, the world you live and inhabit and what you invest your energies in. you will also note that I did not insult you, I did not denigrate you. why should I? You're a man and you are, I assume, worthy of some degree of passing respect if only as a matter of being polite. So, good luck, we'll see you in a few years

    6. Funny how she assumes that. Have you ever heard of the old saying that goes "It takes one to know one?"

      Does Feminism not remind you of a thirst for power or revenge? Sounds like someone has some man issues.

      Also, why don't women ever expose themselves on blogs and posts? They always hide their faces generally. Aren't you supposed to be proud to be a Feminist?

    7. Garden of Eden: I am a woman WHO HAS BEEN RAPED. And I have had catcalls. And I SERIOUSLY take offense to the concept that RAPE and catcalls are even close to the same thing. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

      You think you're so empathetic because you see a trembling female who said, "a guy whistled at me!" and seeing it as the same as RAPE?

      Well, you're less than empathetic. You're not even thinking about the brutal truth of rape and someone being offended. To even compare the two shows your LACK of empathy.

      I was raped and I wasn't afraid to go out in public. Public isn't where rape happens. Public is safe. A guy who shouts that I have a nice ass (thank you. I know) isn't going to run across the street and try to mount me.

      Get a grip. You're with an overly sensitive woman who has never known true victimization and wants the attention that being a victim will grant her. She wants people to sympathize with her without going through the trauma.

      I'm going to say it. There's "rape RAPE". Being physically penetrated against your will. And it sucks. She's living in a fantasy, not the reality and *I* resent it.

      And if she *really* feels vulnerable, she'll want a gun. I'll bet a hundred dollars that she's anti-gun. She's against the great equalizer because she'd never known REAL fear. In my personal life, I've never met a woman who's been violently raped who doesn't love guns.

      BTW, I had a bad experience. Yet I'm not prejudice. I love men. I know there are bad apples, but the group is, in general, fantastic. She's crying to you for attention and you love her, so you're playing the 'white knight' to her whimpering princess.

      The best men I knew *empowered* me to fight back. Took me shooting. Gave me a baseball bat. Taught me how to stand up for myself. Explained to me the mixed signals and how to be clear. *Those* men really loved me. (The big thing they did was not tolerate my bullshit and let me collapse into myself, when that's all I wanted to do. They gave me strength. They did NOT reinforce my self-concept of weakness.)

      So get off your white horse and stop acknowledging her own self-perception of weakness. Force her to stand up. Give her the means to defend herself. Treat her like a WOMAN, and not like a little girl.


      Actually, Feminists do claim that eye rape is the equivlant to physical rape. Check this blog out.

    9. firstly, I would like to say that I was the one who originally found this blog through a facebook link shared on my news feed.
      I read about the first few paragraphs and decided to pass it on to my partner (Gardenofeden).
      My stance on feminism is that I do not follow it, nor do I condemn it.
      I believe isms are created for the people who feel either under attack, fear, secluded by there fellow beings.
      Really we are all one, we share a body, have a heart and path to follow (difference are bound to be experienced for the fact we are not all hear for the same reason or to learn the same lessons and interact with the same people).
      Even looking into a wider picture, this includes animals also, I strongly believe in past lives both as human beings and animals. If this is to be true from what I believe, then we all have been man and women before and experienced different things, that makes us different unique souls.
      I think with the view on sexism comes from growing up or being surrounded in life with views that are fueled from the ones close, or even from past lives that have deeply penerated a part of us, and is triggered when we are reminded of it somehow during a connection, kind of like a post traumatic stress response.
      Our personalities, our opinions, our race, our skin colour, or age, demographics do not make up our soul, this is merely a personality or character, a mask in which we create to deal with the world and it's issues.

      I felt the need to respond on here to have my say on what seems to be directed at me by some people on this blog spot following my partners posts.
      To the man who wrote about the debate about feminism with his sister, how old are you? I am guessing from the experiences you have had maybe 50's or 60's?
      There are some things in your post that offended me for the reason as they are merely untrue and I do not relate to it at all as being a "woman".
      Such as quotes from you:

      Women, broadly speaking, rely upon getting a mate for marriage in particular under the "traditional conception of marriage".

      This is a dance done by women, both consciously and unconsciously, supported by popular culture and other women.

      Your love, well her vag will dry up and probably shoo you away if you maintain your current course, for her mind, specifically her hind brain will have secured the second great requirement of her biological requirements which is shelter and security. (That's you and your paycheque BTW).

      My response being, firstly I was never spoke to about marriage by my parents, they were divorced when I was 18 months old, I grew up as a single child and spent most of my time in an environment where I had both friends of either gender equally. I never wanted to marry, sure I had thoughts of the future as a young girl as being in love and all that kind of thing, though having a family and being married was never something I wanted or thought I would have.
      It wasn't until when I was older and began my relationship with my fiance (Gardener) I then grew to the idea of having a family and being married. We have been friends long time before even entering into a relationship together and we trust each other very much and share a deep bond.

      I believe the comment that was made by you about the dance done by women is supported by popular and other women is misguided.
      I think there is a lot of popular culture aimed at women to be a certain way, you know free and fun and sexual and living life to the full, though there is there is equality the same out there aimed at men. popular culture serves only one purpose... to brain wash the masses to follow an agenda. that's why has become so transformative as a social structure from when it was first invented. the media do not want people to get along, whether of sex, race or political values. as well as wanting pushing drugs, alcohol, fast food, jobs that are only serving to select few on top as the way to live life. they want us to die young, alone and of cancer.

    10. As for the comment about vagina drying up and finding greater requirement by shelter, security, pay check etc. I think is also a misguided comment aimed aimlessly at women or me in particular.
      Is there any person on earth who doesn't need shelter? food? water? security in there surroundings? It is basic survival needs.
      If it was the case of having none of the above, one would do whatever necessary to be secure. regardless of gender or there relationship status.
      Looking out for oneself first, then partner, family, friends, community, country, etc.
      Fact is there are many reasons why people choose to be together, some might for those reasons (for financial) though these relationships will wither over time because it is not built on a solid foundation and of bonded love.

      When you said to my partner "So now you will be stuck in a largely celibate relationship with a "wonderful woman who has going through some life changes". and you will find yourself deflated somewhat, that buoyancy you feel now in her presence will have changed to a sinking feeling that you are somehow trapped into something you did not sign up for."

      I think this speaks for itself, being that you found yourself in a that situation because the relationship you formed at the time lacked love and open communication of what you both are looking for from each other.

    11. Another quote of yours "You will find that what you read in the paper everyday and what they teach in women's studies courses and what they preach on Dr Phil and Oprah, well it's all just bullshit and none of it serves YOUR interests. When you get back here in a few years parched with sexual thirst and wondering how your wife was cured of sex by wedding cake, we will welcome you back with open and understanding arms"

      Newspapers that are sorely owned by a big corporation are not the main source of news to read, and gossip magazines or mainstream self help gurus such as Oprah and Dr Phil are for entertainment and not the source to identify your problems and fixing them. They are multi millionare people who are part of the agenda to brainwash people.
      I do not understand the comment about wedding cake? though having sexual thirst and intensification would be the same if single or in a relationship, the fact is as society you are told to want more of everything, more sex, more food, more money etc etc.
      this grows and grows till you fail to notice what you have and take it for granted. we all should be thankful for what we currently have, and if we truly feel there is something missing then strive to make it better without damaging anyone or thing in the way of it.
      the general structure of events in life follows these patterns..
      think, say, act, reflect.
      the problem is that most people miss one of these things, being the reflect.

      As for the last comment you made quote:

      So go get married, enjoy the slide for a few years, and one night when you are drunk and crying to your buddies that you haven't had a blowjob in months, that you have sex once a month, that she is always texting her "BFF" 48 times a day and keeps her phone locked and you found a TINDR account.

      All I have to say about this is that it is yet another example of misguided propaganda..
      One being that men drink with there buddies, would have a best girlfriend and there friends do not mix together and a bonded by sex.
      In fact I do not have any close girlfriends, most of my best friends are male and do not have a tinder account. Why would I? I am involved in a relationship with someone I love.
      My partner doesn't drink, or having male buddies so there is no relevance to those comments made.
      He doesn't even own a phone, and uses mine to text and write on this forum, which of course is unlocked and ready for his use. Why would someone want to hide anything from there partner? It is because there is distrust in the relationship and I bet not only with there partner, but ALL relationships.
      That being friends, business partners and any one on one connections.

      I will write more in response later though for now I have to go out and have other things to do.

      I hope this has opened your eyes to the real problems that the world faces, and it is not to do with the what is in ones pants.

    12. This comment has been removed by the author.

    13. Ian IronwoodJuly 30, 2014 at 2:15 PM
      Really? You think the answer to our problems is . . . Marxism?!

      Men come to the Red Pill Room because they are focusing on the real fight: the struggle to explore and enjoy their own masculinity on their terms. They ARE improving themselves here - without feminism, Marxism, or other ideologies. And I'd strongly debate that we live in an unbalanced world "in the favour of men" - that's feminist propoganda. Ask the 70% male homeless population how favorable they find the world, or the male domestic violence survivors denied shelters because of feminist agitation.

      Yes of course, homelessness and poverty is a recent phenomenon that has never been experienced in human history till the advent of feminism.
      All this time I have been blaming capitalism for the government taking my taxes,, and giving them to the wealthy, driving up the cost of houses, food ect, depriving me (and the rest of us) of healthcare and education.... when it was women all along! how silly of me!
      Those homeless men would do well to understand the reason for the lack of homeless shelters is a result of government cuts to social welfare spending (that effects men AND women) and to that the reason one cannot leave a home and find a new one is that an artificial scarcity in housing has driven the cost of homes (renting and buying) and caused a great deal of competition among the working class to access that housing.
      Those problems existed before feminism, I can assure you (feminism coming about mod 20th century).
      If you realizes that all fights are one in the same, then you will end up taking a stance on one issue that contradicts the stance you have taken on another issue.

    14. @Tarot Whisperer, welcome to the discussion.
      Glad you made it along here. This is "sister debater" here again.

      Well I am genuinely sorry if you two took offense at my comments, that having been said it paints a clear picture of the thin skin that wraps those who tend to espouse your ideas. If youthink my comments are bad, well frankly you may well have a rough ride of marriage, it can test you far more than a few off color remarks by some stranger on the interweb. Oh that's right, your relationship is just fine and perfect and very strong and based on an insanely mypic view of the world built upon a relationship between two people who seemingly eschew the company, advice, experience and support or lets see, absolutely anyone else. Well OK then, you are a better person then me if you are so strong of mind and heart, so sure of what you know, that you can trust absolutely all of your emotions, feelings, doubts, fears, highs and lows to just one other person in your life. That is a level of trust that I would like to say I admire, but frankly I cannot lie to you. For you two are setting yourself up to be trapped in a very small bubble. While you may well be soul mates and revel in how you can finish each others sentences when quoting Marx and have gleeful times making fun of the bitter people around you who have clearly not seen whatever light it is that you are managing to enjoy, I can only caution you that such intimacy in ALL aspects of your relationship with each other is potentially a gilded prison. There are a few tropes, memes, traditions, sayings, call them what you will that come to mind and may become salient to you, may, at some point in the future. I might point out that tropes, memes and saying don't come about and persist in culture due to their irrelevance, they came about quite naturally as the byproduct of the collective human experience and one of those sayings is quite rightly, "familiarity breeds contempt". Sure GOE may not "drink with his buddies", this is a colloqiallism I chose to characterize a potential emotional moment in his future, it could just as easily be over Pizza with a brother or a fine spliff with an old friend. My point is two-fold, one, GOE may well get to a point where he cannot speak to TW because guess what, despite your BFF status you may find yourself trapped between wanting to articulate and negotiate for your own needs in the most egalitarian of ways possible, but you may be trapped by the need to articulate some ugly truths to your partner to be able to do that effectively.
      Let me give you an example, TW says to GOE, "Honey, I know you have said that you would like to share in the delights of sexuality with me, but I just have a hard time getting into it since you chose to not take part in the capitalist enterprise or subscribe to the misogynist edict that you must maintain your body in some state of aesthetic appeal for your life partner." or put another way, "I love you, but your gross right now and you don't turn me on and I don't want you to violate my body because ya know we're equalist and absolutely respect the soverign territory of each others bodies, so no nookie for you"

    15. So there is this difficult conundrum you may face, you love each other and you don't want to hurt each other by saying or doing hurtful things and what you want cognitively out of your relationship may not jive with what you body may perhaps say about things, and yes your body does have a lot to say about these things.
      So when various parties in the manosphere say things like "Desire cannot be negotiated" think carefully about that. You may get to a point way down the tracks where your physical needs are quite divergent and you can to work out an equalist, rational, fair and honest and communication based solution, but for one of you all the talk in the world may not light the fire in an a meaningful and enduring way. You will be faced with the choice of being BRUTALLY HONEST with your partner, or lying to spare their feelings. note, this form of lying is usually done in parallel with some degree of lying to oneself about the situation. This is also known as "rationalization". I caution you, not tocast aspersions upon the depth of your love for each other or your rational resolve in the face of all adversity, that this is all but inevitable in a relationship founded upon love that is asked to last for decades, under any given socio-economic regime you choose to subscribe to. Now even you two, in your youthful optimism must be able to admit that it is possible that things may not, for some reason or another, over a long enough span of time, go according to your current plan. moreover you might possibly be able to acknowledge that what you know now will inevitably be mutated, changed, grown by force of simple personal experience and that indeed your personal motivations and beliefs may in fact be mutable in the face of time. Is this fair to posit on my part?
      So my point is that when in fact you do diverge to some extent for whatever reason and whoever does diverge, it is no fault of theirs nor is it ever intended as malicious, devious or manipulative, it simply happens because people grow and change.
      I simply ask you to be prepared for the possibility that this could happen and you may face some tough choices about what you choose to share with each other because there is always a balance between the "truth" and the TRUTH and what you want to inflict upon your partner.
      This is one reason you have "drinking buddies". Not to get drunk, but to mediate your own experience of marriage and to play things out with someone other than your life partner, so that you may gain some perspective.
      To imagine you can navigate 40 or 50 years of "domestic bliss" without so much as a shred of insight from anyone other than your betrothed betrays either a hint of hubris or unvarnished naivte. for if you only ever speak to each other about your relationship, you leave yourself open to the manipulations of the other. Again, I di not suggest there is any kind of ill will or less than savoury intention by either of you, but the fact is that some motivations and actions by people cannot be explained or negotiated rationally and despite best intensions people sometimes do the wrong thing, and in a binary pairing you limit your situational awareness completely if you only ever speak of your relationship with each other.

    16. Therein lies my point, nay this is the very point of the manospehere and red pill culture in general. It is not to denigrate ones partner or oppress women or support the patriarchy so we may all be good capitalists. No, the point is to simply have one's eyes wide open about why people do the things they do. Most people who have affairs don't do it to hurt their partner, its the lastthing they want to do. They do it because there is something vital missing in their lives and they are driven to fill that hole either literally or figuratively. It's not for lack of effort or intent or love on the part of their partner, its because they simply don't understand, either of them, what's missing.
      Many men and women today, find out what has been missing, what has been there in front of them for ever but unsaid by taking the "red pill". they come to accept that a lot of what we do and say comes not from our cerebral foremind but rather our very animal rear brain. hint, the rear lizard brain is far more imbedded and effective then any cogent part of your noggin near your forehead and be thankful for this because when the shit hits the fan its the rear brain that will save you r ass with fight or flight etc.
      So I humbly suggest that I did not throw that marital prognostication out there to merely insult you and your partner, rather I threw it out there to simply caution you and at the same time invite you to try to set aside your own current views of the world, if only for a few minutes a day, so that you may gain some perspective.
      Yes indeed I have made mistakes in my relationships in my life, me and everyone else here are offering you unfettered advice that may help you and your betrothed avoid the pitfalls many of us have endured. The truth is you are some random stranger on the internet, I owe you nothing, but I am actually a gregarious and generally helpful guy, I help little old ladies cross the street and things like that simply because its the decent thing to do. I offer my insights gained by hard experience so that you may profit from them and avoid some of the traps that have befallen many who find their way here.
      So why do I say all this. Well because this all started with a critique of feminism. Most people here agree with Ian about this observations because many people here learned the hard way that the path prescribed by feminism, in general, is in fact the path to relationship ruin.
      You did not understand when someone said you were ego-invested in feminism. I strongly encourage you to look it up. just Google it, go check out wiki, then come back and continue the conversation. We'll be here waiting to have an intelligent, fair and polite conversation about all of these things. No hate, no bullying, no shaming, no denigration. any time, come on back. We'll be here and we actually have your back even if you cannot believe it right now.
      See you soon, thanks for participating.

    17. @Pepper Conchobhar
      "I was raped and I wasn't afraid to go out in public. Public isn't where rape happens. Public is safe. A guy who shouts that I have a nice ass (thank you. I know) isn't going to run across the street and try to mount me."

      Rape never happens in public? I suppose to you would dismiss sexual assault as a 'non event' as there is no penetration?
      Do you not go out at night? only go to shopping centres to do your shopping?
      Sure a majority of rape is private, but that does not mean all of it is. And again sexual assault is a traumatic experience. I think it is a joke that you are calling me unemphatic, and then go on to call my partner who you don't know, never mind heard what she has to say, a liar out of hand. It is that attitude is which why there is a culture of sexual harassment (and assualt, and abuse) in our society. It isn't just men who cover it up or try to dismiss the issue but women such as yourself who refuse acknowledge it exists or otherwise make out like it is normal and not a problem (I'm glad you appreciate cat calls, but as previously mentioned not everyone does.)
      As I said previously "sexist apologist"
      Here is an interesting article I just read that I think articulates the point better than I:
      I will also add that while it is not the majority who commit the crime, the majority tends to do nothing about it occuring or having occured.

      "I'm going to say it. There's "rape RAPE". Being physically penetrated against your will. And it sucks. She's living in a fantasy, not the reality and *I* resent it."

      How very empathetic and understanding of you to . Yes she has experienced that and had that trauma. not only once and not only in private. And there was a particularly scary incident that was public that would have resulted in rape had she not have been helped by passers by.
      May I preempt your next remark? Perchance you will claim it was her own fault for being where she was, what she was wearing or who she was with?

    18. "And if she *really* feels vulnerable, she'll want a gun. I'll bet a hundred dollars that she's anti-gun. She's against the great equalizer because she'd never known REAL fear. In my personal life, I've never met a woman who's been violently raped who doesn't love guns."

      Firstly we live in Australia were guns are all but illegal for people to own, never mind be walking around with in public. But aside from that - so you would say to victim of sexual assault or rape "serves you right for not carrying gun" ? Also, pepper spray and tasers are also illegal in Australia, at least as far as I know. Usually self defense (martial arts) classes are what one would do here. I think it is a great idea, and should certainly be encouraged, though it is a of defeatist attitude to just put all the focus on women being able to defend themselves, rather than trying to put a stop to sexual harassment, assault and rape.

      "BTW, I had a bad experience. Yet I'm not prejudice. I love men. I know there are bad apples, but the group is, in general, fantastic. She's crying to you for attention and you love her, so you're playing the 'white knight' to her whimpering princess."

      How wonderful for you to have overcome your experience. Neither is my partner prejudiced, she also loves men. After all, she has a father, myself, male friends, and male pets. No where has it been said by either myself of her (tarot whisperer) that all men are bad and rapists. All my comments have been addressed at criticizing an ideology (male chauvinism) not a gender.
      Funnily enough, if anyone is playing victim here, it is the people that use this site, claiming that you are unfairly targeted by feminists for being men.

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  34. "It is telling that it took young women rebelling against feminist ideology in a public sphere to get prominent (and obscure) feminists all over the world to listen – if only for a moment – to the same things that most folks in the Red Pill/MHRA/MGTOW/PUA/OMG community have been saying, some of us for decades. But when opinions that issue from the mouths of men are ignored or discounted simply because of our gender,"

    Amazing Manifesto, sir.

    I welcome these young women into the fold but I am yet hesitant to think that this is a real intellectual movement away from feminism and more of an aberration of youthful exuberance. Younglings have a reckless sense of immortality and no limits about them that causes them not to see the consequences of their actions. It's also the norm for them to declare their independence by going against the current morays.

    If anything this just proves feminism is an ideology, by it's own definition a social construct, and not a truth.
    But alas it's an open window to climb through.


  35. Okay, I have read many blogs, pages and so on. I have failed to come across anything really but opinions. I keep hearing about all this job inequality. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF MY MENTAL HEALTH, can you Feminists explain to me what jobs you are talking about. The rate of pay and where exactly? Generalizing isn't solving anything. Imean, I work as an accountant and the women I work with are receiving the same rate of pay as I am. If I get hired at Best Buy, are you saying that me, a man, will get a higher rate of pay for the same job? Please, explain this to me using facts and statistics. It seems that all you Feminists do is call everybody stupid, or uneducated without providing a logical reason as to why those words are coming out of your mouth. Maybe people in general would start taking you more seriously if you provided them with facts and examples.

    1. Here are some statistical sites explaining and demonstrating pay inequality. I think (though could be wrong) It is not because a woman working working at the checkout gets paid less than a man working at the checkout but because the man is more likely to be promoted to the better paying position of manager.

    2. To be honest, I hate they're are indifferences. It is extremely sexist towards women and I'll be the first to admit that. I believe we all deserve equal rights to absolutely everything.

      Jobs, child custody, child support, equal pay, equality to do and say anything and everything. No sex should have any one advantage over the other.

  36. Your dig at the Catholic Church reflects a deep ignorance concerning the civilization you purport to value. Family, Masculinity, Chastity, Patriarchy, Security, Rule of Law, true Femininity--all of these we have, now in sadly winnowing forms, because of the creation of this civilization by the Catholic Church. It is also important to mention that the Catholic Church has been the determined foe of every sort of egalitarian and determinist ideology, including feminism, since the advent of these things in early modernity. The unity of truth, the complementarity of Faith and Reason, the rise of empirical science, the creation of modern jurisprudence--the list goes on and on. These are the bequests of Catholic, Christian civilization. Without that faith, you will never be able to salvage what you value from the past or present. As T. S. Eliot once wrote: "The World is trying to experiment with attempting to form a civilized but non-Christian mentality. The experiment will fail; but we must be very patient in awaiting its collapse; meanwhile redeeming the time: so that the Faith may be preserved alive through the dark ages before us; to renew and rebuild civilization, and save the World from suicide."

    As trenchant as the critique of feminism has become in the manosphere, that critique, alone, does not a civilization build. It is idiocy to think so. Without the Western, Christian notion of the Good as found in the Sovereign God-made-flesh, you can whine about feminism all you want, but you will never be able to overcome the liberal and egalitarian dung heap from which it springs. You will be part of that dung heap--as all progressives are. You cannot pick and choose what sort of progressive you like.

    1. Readers might find this book, among others, helpful for learning some truth about Western history.

  37. Excellent post sir. Very well written. ��

  38. @Tarot and GoE.

    I feel so victimized!

    As I read both of your responses I have to laugh at how familiar they sound, because in my youth I believed and espoused much of the same things.
    The misnomer for you is that you believe the current problems of the world are new problems.
    They are not, as you will find out. Ironically the solutions are the old ones.

    "Don't throw the past away
    You might need it some rainy day
    Dreams can come true again
    When everything old is new again."

    From the lyrics "Everything Old Is New Again" by Peter Allen


    1. "The misnomer for you is that you believe the current problems of the world are new problems.
      They are not, as you will find out. Ironically the solutions are the old ones."

      I don't know how you came to that conclusion of either of us.
      The problems are old problems. So too are the solutions. The only thing new is the technology used to perpetuate the problems.

  39. You are spot on except for your invalid comparisons to the Gutless Old Pussies of the GOP.

    Their pandering to the "mainstream" i.e. LEFTIST/STATIST while, schizophrenically pandering to the Religious Right is what drives away true lovers of Freedom and Equality like myself. The problem is that the "mainstream" is predominantly stupid low-information consumers...selfie-addicted narcissists.

  40. Are women willing to give up child custody, child support, alimony? Will you be entering the army draft if there ever is another world war? Why is it customary for the male to purchase an engagement ring and propose?

  41. I know I'm late to the party here, but having just been shown this post I want to make one thing absolutely clear: the fact that many of us are now *against* what mainstream feminism has become absolutely does not mean we're *with* the likes of you.

    We're not against feminism because we disagree with its purported goal of true equality of opportunity among the sexes, or our absolute right to self-determination and bodily autonomy, or with dismantling gender roles and the expectations and assumptions they impose on individuals.

    We're never going to stand with anyone who believes anything, ever, gives a person the "native right" to use another's body sexually without their ongoing enthusiastic consent. Or dehumanises men by insinuating that they are such slaves to impulse that if they can't rape their wives they'll inevitably cheat on them. Or generalises the nature of individuals' sexuality based on their sex alone. Or does not support an individual's right to end a relationship on their own terms. Or espouses the sexist view that marriage is somehow a pillar of femininity more than one of masculinity. Or implies women (but not men) must choose *either* a career or a family. Or believes that when partners each choose to keep their own names in an equal relationship this is somehow emasculating.

    We're "against feminism" because yes, the mainstream feminist movement ignores and derides male issues, because it adopts stances that are fundamentally sexist, because it fails to address intersectionality with issues of race and gender identity, and because it manufactures victimhood and fear, among other things.

    But we're still for true equality. Not for tired old sexist bullshit like using women who don't wear what you think they should wear as a simile for being clueless and out of touch.

    A woman with three advanced science degrees.

  42. My name is Gilda Perez, am from UK. i want to use this opportunity to thank my great doctor who really made my life a pleasurable one today. This great man DR.EDOSA brought my husband back to me, i had three lovely kids for my husband, about four years ago i and my husband has been into one quarrel or the other until he finally left me for one lady. i felt my life was over and my kids thought they would never see their father again. i tried to be strong just for the kids but i could not control the pains that torments my heart, my heart was filled with sorrows and pains because i was really in love with my husband. Every day and night i think of him and always wish he would come back to me, until one day i met a good friend of mine that was also in a situation like me but her problem was her ex-boyfriend who she had an unwanted pregnancy for and he refused to take responsibility and dumped her. she told me that mine was a small case and that i should not worry about it at all, so i asked her what was the solution to my problems and she gave me this great man email address. i was doubting if this man was the solution, so i contacted this great man and he told me what to do and i deed them all, he told me to wait for just two day and that my husband will come crawling on his kneels just for forgiveness so i faithfully deed what this great man asked me to do and for sure after two days i heard a knock on the door, in a great surprise i saw him on his kneels and i was speechless, when he saw me, all he did was crying and asking me for forgiveness, from that day, all the pains and sorrows in my heart flew away,since then i and my husband and our lovely kids are happy.that's why i want to say a big thank you to DR.EDOSA. This great man made me to understand that there is no problem on earth that has no solution so please if you know that you have this same problem or any problem that is similar, i will advise you to come straight to this great man. you can email him at: (

  43. These are words of wisdom in this piece. As a professor I interact with feminists of all types- big, fat, short, skinny, prickly, surfacy, rude, obnoxious, and loud. Despite interacting with HUNDREDS of feminists I have yet to find one who was pleasant, or sweet, or feminine. More to the point, I have yet to find one who was HAPPY.

    In fact almost all of them are seething with rage and anger. They are bitter about past wrongs from decades ago which they remember like it was yesterday. Most of them despise men and ALL of them despise the concept of masculinity.

    They have won the battle of the sexes and are now the dominant party in their relationships and their lives. They have won and they kept all their advantages as a woman while gaining all the formerly male advantages. They are now superior, not equals. Yet all of them are pissed off and on edge. All of them act like they are ready to start their period any day now. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

    TLDR: Feminism = PMS

  44. Bluepillprofessor:

    OF COURSE she thinks the answer to our problems is Marxism.

    Feminism is Marxism in panties.

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  46. I lost a job in academics because a fat bitchy feminist professor wanted to plaster my picture with the title: "I am a Feminist." I told her "I am not." They did not renew my teaching contract and hired a "critical theorist" (a/k/a Marxist).

    I wouldn't piss on this chicks if they were on fire.

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  48. Spread the word guys, spread the word! Make young men realize the horrors of feminism! Win back the beta men! Become a mentor for the modern men so that they may not have to learn it the hard way. Fight feminism with full force!

  49. I know there are many problems with ignorant feminists. Too many in our modern day. Truthfully though, I'm an old school feminist (I use the term to imply that I actually do mean equality, including the draft, custody, serious attention given to prison and wartime rape of men etc.) and I understand why many men oppose the term.

    I just personally was drawn to it because I've never had the 'general' characteristics of a 'girly girl' and it offered me a platform to be myself and not feel like there was something wrong with me. Too much of my childhood as a girl I had people telling me to focus on appearance, looks, superficial stuff you know? I wanted to compete in sports, I wanted to focus on intelligence, I was fascinated by many careers, by science, by exploration, history, politics etc. I feel too many girls have been encouraged to put their superficial qualities above their actual skills, and therefore kind of been degraded from their full potential. This obviously has been kind of systematic because at a time, women weren't expected to be anything beyond a wife/mother.

    To me, this isn't right. It's good for a woman to be a loving wife and a strong mother for her children, but that's not all she should strive for. Every one of us, man and woman, should try our best to reach our full potential. So we can feel confident and proud of ourselves and our abilities and accomplishments. Just like a man can work on being a loving husband and a strong father-figure, and still strive to be something beyond that for himself, to feel successful and proud, a woman should also do the same. I feel otherwise, women end up being too superficial, and isn't it boring for men to be with women who only care about looks and appearance and they have nothing in common?

    I feel that many men would much prefer a woman who they could talk with about intellectual topics, who understood the kind of work they did and actually were interested in hearing him talk about it, who also enjoyed and took part in some of their hobbies.

    1. Here's the thing: while you feel that those girls were somehow cheated out of something by focusing on appearance and their reproductive and mating strategies, those girls generally ended up with higher quality men earlier in life, while their "fun, fearless" contemporaries were off getting laid like gangbusters . . . and then lamenting about the utter lack of "good men" when they were finally able to settle down.

      So just who lived up to their full potential? The woman who married early and focused on being a wife and mother, who is able to pursue a career or interests later in life . . . or the woman who squandered her best reproductive years on fun, corporate achievement, and pointless Twitter activism until her age and "experience" made her unsuitable as a long term prospect for any many she might herself consider worthy?

      Your feelings about what men want are quaint. If you have a single shred of evidence beyond wishful thinking, I'd love to see it.

  50. Dear feminists,
    Have you ever considered that your activism has collateral damages on many women? I grew up being told that feminism gave women choices. Really? A woman should have the choice to be a homemaker if she decides to without feeling ashamed to say it to her peers. Apparently, the only choice we gained is the choice to work full-time or be disrespected and labeled a 'domestic slave' or worse. As Ian said, being a wife is a job, not a title. And being a good wife takes a lot of time, and the rewards are amazing :)
    What women need is freedom of choice regarding their career, or lack thereof without being criticised by feminist ladies. If feminism is really about women welfare, than we should have the choice.

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  55. "But until feminists...hold themselves accountable for the sins of their sisters in the name of their ideology..."

    This is Not gonna happen.
    Not holding my breath.
    Let it burn.

    Enjoy the cats.

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