tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post5020902733535389659..comments2024-03-27T17:13:17.767-04:00Comments on The Red Pill Room: The End Of Hypergamy? Not So Fast . . .Ian Ironwoodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09776355241706284910noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-67846874610228945872017-08-24T05:30:20.145-04:002017-08-24T05:30:20.145-04:00If you'd like an alternative to casually appro...If you'd like an alternative to casually approaching girls and trying to figure out the right thing to do...<br /><br />If you'd prefer to have women pick YOU, instead of spending your nights prowling around in noisy pubs and nightclubs...<br /><br />Then I encourage you to view this short video to learn a weird secret that has the potential to get you your very own harem of hot women: <br /><br /><b><a href="http://dating.syntaxlinks.com/r/FacebookSeductionSystem" rel="nofollow">FACEBOOK SEDUCTION SYSTEM</a></b>...Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287821785570247118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-47478169665655617522012-05-29T14:13:38.935-04:002012-05-29T14:13:38.935-04:00"So for obvious reasons, I do want someone wh..."So for obvious reasons, I do want someone who can provide stability b/c we cant raise kids on what I make BUT I soooo wish I didnt need that."<br /><br />What is preventing you from being the breadwinner and allowing your husband to be a stay-at-home father? Why must you be the one who is provided for? This is another reason why men are tired of women; they want the best of egalitarianism and the best of traditional roles. Salad bar feminism, if you will. Guess what? Men don't want to deal with the grind, too. How about giving us some options?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-7024228027862418632012-04-16T15:40:09.805-04:002012-04-16T15:40:09.805-04:00Guys who cheat and get caught get called on it.
W...Guys who cheat and get caught get called on it.<br /><br />Women who withhold sex don't.<br /><br />As far as I'm concerned both are violations of the vow.<br /><br />Perhaps more men cheat, perhaps not. I'm certain that more women withhold sex.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-80171629119754742552012-04-06T20:56:50.848-04:002012-04-06T20:56:50.848-04:00Hey anon, I have seen more women leave than men. I...Hey anon, I have seen more women leave than men. It seems to be the trend with a lot of women in the last ten years or so. It really doesn't matter what our experience has been. The data shows that women initiate 70-75% of divorces mostly for weak-ass reasons: "I'm bored " I'm not happy" " I'm not in love anymore" " I want to go find myself ". Sadly,because of the anti-male bias in custody matters and divorce laws, there is no incentive for these women to keep their vows. I think because good women would never do this,they project their character onto other women and don't believe there could be as many selfish women as there actually areAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-40505376680436661692012-04-06T11:47:32.272-04:002012-04-06T11:47:32.272-04:00My experience is the same as described by JS. It ...My experience is the same as described by JS. It was my Dad who cheated, my uncles who cheated, my boyfriends who cheated. This was what I saw, this is what I feared. Maybe they were just all alphas who had a lot of other options when their relationships turned unhappy. I know women leave because they're unhappy, but I've seen men leave more often.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-57704908969685826942012-04-05T15:23:44.442-04:002012-04-05T15:23:44.442-04:00Really, JS? TONS of men? You may have experienced ...Really, JS? TONS of men? You may have experienced it, fair enough, but this is anedoctal evidence. The real data says the opposite. In fact, in most of the cases, it's the women who file for divorce.<br /><br />Read http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/12/20/is-frivolous-divorce-overstated-in-the-manosphere/R.http://none.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-83153862243448854712012-04-02T17:00:11.302-04:002012-04-02T17:00:11.302-04:00I'm not sure you followed the entire post. The...I'm not sure you followed the entire post. There is quite a bit that of subtext that Ian covers regarding all of the factors behind marital relationships (all inter-gender relationships really, but marriage is the specific focus here). Your example of a actress/artist having a career that takes off leaving her husband needs a reality check. Why? Because it does happen and regularly (I can name one in the last few months even though I do my best to ignore the celebrity gossip culture around me). Ask any of them and they will say they "married for love, but fell out of it". Your questions appear premised on the idea that women and men think the same way... yet this entire post is about how they do not.CarpeOrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02710387974265178960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-20487402316766597782012-04-02T15:55:57.087-04:002012-04-02T15:55:57.087-04:00Two of my sisters-in-law have done it a total of t...Two of my sisters-in-law have done it a total of three times, now. I've known two women who've done it at least twice, each. It's almost a sick joke at this point.<br /><br />I agree that cheating men are plenty responsible for their share of divorces, but either way you look at it, it's breaking a vow. And if you can't live up to a solemn vow, then how can society take you serious as an adult?<br /><br />That's what it comes down to in the Manosphere: frivolous divorce has contributed to the strongly-held opinion that women can't be trusted to be honest about their relationships. This opinion has even been echoed by some women. Hard to accept that, but then trust women in every other aspect of their lives.<br /><br />I'm very thankful I have Mrs. Ironwood. I seem to be enough to keep her from getting bored.Ian Ironwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09776355241706284910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-56250519793749292562012-04-02T15:31:47.467-04:002012-04-02T15:31:47.467-04:00Fair enough. I grew up with the opposite... seeing...Fair enough. I grew up with the opposite... seeing men cheat and initiate divorce and leave their wives for younger versions. (not my dad or men I was related to but men who married in or couple my parents knew). So it's hard for me to buy into the whole female cult of divorce but obviously enough men talk about it, so it obviously exists even if I've never seen it first hand. <br /><br />Actually, I do know of two woman in the past 10 yrs who dumped their husbands for no good reason. But those were only two cases and only in recent yrs compared to the TONS of men I've known to do it for yrs and yrs of my life.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-89145660346784887492012-04-02T15:17:59.560-04:002012-04-02T15:17:59.560-04:00As far as EPL goes, it's not the money that ma...As far as EPL goes, it's not the money that matters. It was the highly, highly insulting position she took in divorcing him for no really good damn reason. She didn't try to work it out or deal with it like an adult, she cut and ran and left him in her wake, a piece of human debris unworthy of further consideration. Glad she's remorseful -- that doesn't excuse her behavior. She hurt a good man for no higher reason than her own selfishness, when she had vowed and committed to do otherwise.<br /><br />The resentment at EPL you sense in the Manosphere is very real. We see it as a celebration of the cult of divorce and a justification for dumping the perfectly decent guy who's planning on spending the rest of his life with you on a whim. She can justify her bullshit with saints and bodhisattvas all she likes, but I'd be suspect of the spiritual worth of a woman who could pursue spirituality with a straight face after betraying her holy vows so lightly.<br /><br />There are all kinds of selfishness, material selfishness being just the most obvious. Did she try to discuss her feelings with her husband? Invoke his aid? Work it out? No. She utterly discounted him. No, he wasn't tearing the world up with his success, but neither was he bottoming out. But she got bored, horny, and so she left his dick in the dirt, because she was EMOTIONALLY selfish. I'd almost rather have a financially selfish woman to contend with -- at least you could trust that they would stay consistent.Ian Ironwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09776355241706284910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-83163539615491293892012-04-02T15:10:40.539-04:002012-04-02T15:10:40.539-04:00oops.... that was supposed to say: I read and en...oops.... that was supposed to say: I read and enjoyed EPL, not for relationship advice b/c clearly she made bad choices (the first being MARRYING someone who was not able to stand on his own two feet)JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-60143129444243105682012-04-02T15:08:39.296-04:002012-04-02T15:08:39.296-04:00Okay, maybe there is a mis-communication here. Whe...Okay, maybe there is a mis-communication here. When I say love I mean love based upon "personality compatibility, sexual compatibility, congruent family cultures, and future plans"...the only thing I took out of your list was finances. Because while it is on my list for husband traits I see it as separate from "love." To me, if money/currency disappeared from the world, would you still love him? ....if the answer is no, then that's not love. <br /><br />As for the Eat-Pray-Love bashing that I see so much of in the manosphere, it always makes me laugh and think, clearly these men did not read the book...because 1) she voluntarily handed over all her money to him in the divorce to be allowed to end the marriage 2) he was not stable, he never had a career or direction of his own 3) she goes to great lengths to explain her remorse for having hurt him by ending the marriage. 4) she describes her role in her past relationships as provider/supporter, going into financial debt at times to support the guy...that's hardly what I think of when I think "selfish woman." Selfish women want the Chanel not Gucci, damnit and baseball sized diamonds. <br /><br />I read and enjoyed EPL, not for relationship advice b/c clearly she made bad choices (the first being someone who was not able to stand on his own two feet) but b/c of the spiritual/meditative journey that had she been a man or a never-married woman would have equally valuable but not subject to so much judgement. Example... On the Road was spiritual journey to find God written by a devotee of St Therese. And Gilbert in EPL talks about St Therese and her writings on meditation in detail. It's just funny to me that all anyone in the manosphere seem to think in regard to the book is housewife leaves successful husband. When really she was a sucessful working woman with a husband who did not contribute in any way and was making it difficult for her to pursue the very career that was financing his life. <br /><br />But whatevs...I dont get fantasy football, so I dont expect men to get EPL.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-86338052649142864222012-04-02T14:25:49.561-04:002012-04-02T14:25:49.561-04:00The examples you provide are actually illustrative...The examples you provide are actually illustrative of my point. The first two are cases in which financial concerns are secondary to love, at first -- but you would think that because of that, since the couples were marrying for love first and foremost that their unions would survive longer and be happier, since money and economic necessity are not issues. Only they <i>don't</i> survive longer. In fact, such unions wither with startling frequency as the money that didn't matter more than love becomes more about power than about resources. And in the case of a very wealthy couple, the mingling of the two fortunes might not be an obstacle to happiness, but only because both could employ a phalanx of lawyers to negotiate the terms of the union on their behalf, with prenups and the whole bit.<br /><br />My point is that marrying "for love" first and foremost gives you slightly worse odds, statistically speaking, than playing the same color on roulette over and over. Love in conjunction with personality compatibility, sexual compatibility, congruent family cultures, finances and future plans all taken into account makes a strong union -- placing bets all over the board, in essence, dramatically increasing chances of a successful outcome.<br /><br />So how does marrying for love imply more integrity than marrying out of -- let's not say "necessity", for we all have choices -- marrying for economic impulsion, sexual compatibility, or cultural congruity? I'm not knocking love -- but the feminine impulse to use "Twue Wuv" as a rationalization for their behavior, often very impulsive and potentially damaging behavior, has rarely done them any favors.<br /><br />There is a whole subculture of women who had mid-life crises in their late 30s-late 40s and are possessed of a strong desire to not be married to their perfectly nice, stable husbands. Often they wish their husbands would have an affair and give them an excuse, and sometimes they will have an affair to precipitate a divorce. More often they just hand them the "I'm not happy" line and start packing. They're not "in wuv" with their husbands anymore, and so therefore any behavior is justified to find "Twue Wuv". That's essentially the plot of "Eat,Pray,Love". <br /><br />And do these women find fulfillment? No . . . anywhere from six months to eighteen months later, as their husbands suddenly discover that 40 year old dudes are HIGHLY attractive to 30 year old women, these women realize that the "Twue Wuv" they were chasing was an illusion. There are no hidden Prince Charmings waiting to whisk them away to Aspen and buy them pretty things. The impulse to chase "Twue Wuv" in fact robbed them of the very love that they felt they were missing -- worse, it left their families shattered and condemned most of them to dying loveless, alone and bitter, knowing that they've made a horrible mistake. There are whole blogospheres devoted to these women.<br /><br />Love is great. I love love. It's an essential part of a daily breakfast. Don't misunderstand me. But when Love becomes "Twue Wuv" and convinces you that the cute guitar player living out of his van only needs the love of a good woman to see him burst into a highly grateful success, that's when you have to fall back on reason, intuition, and common-sense. And most women don't -- they're blinded by either their hearts or their vaginas or a combination of both. And the losers of the world thank you for it.<br /><br />The rest of us . . . not so much.Ian Ironwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09776355241706284910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-52691451035482561882012-04-02T13:40:36.453-04:002012-04-02T13:40:36.453-04:00"And that's the point: A lot of women who..."And that's the point: A lot of women who are "in love" with their husbands mysteriously fall "out of love" with their husbands when a better deal comes along. Not just "sometimes" -- a LOT."<br /><br />I think it is more like this: A lot of women who are "in love" with their husband's bank accounts mysteriously fall "out of love" with their husbands when a better deal payday (er boyfriend) comes along. Not just "sometimes" -- a LOT.".... I think men not wanting a woman who loves him for him, is like holding a neon sign that says "use me for my money, until someone richer comes along to replace me." When you're in love, that person is irreplacable. <br /><br />And what about those people who both dont make much, the two 28 yr olds who make approx $30k a year each or the other end the two doctors who meet during residency and get married and both end up making around $200k+ or the two heir/heiress types who dont need each other's money but grew up in the same circles/boarding schools, etc and get married....? In none of these cases, do the spouses need each other financially, but they marry because they want to. And in the case you present...why would a man want to be with a wife who is really only there because she needs him? When alternatively, he could be loved for who he is not what he do for her. <br /><br />Now, I am not saying any of this as the uber-executive chick. I'm an actress/temp. So for obvious reasons, I do want someone who can provide stability b/c we cant raise kids on what I make BUT I soooo wish I didnt need that. Because if I didnt...if I won the lottery or something, my dating pool would be much broader I could just marry someone kind and smart. It wouldnt matter if they were a poet or a banker. <br /><br />But honestly I think marrying for love has more integrity than marrying out of necessity.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-38636811755762719352012-04-02T13:06:03.557-04:002012-04-02T13:06:03.557-04:00It's not that I wholesale reject the concept o...It's not that I wholesale reject the concept of marrying for love, I just think its a woefully inadequate to base a marriage around.<br /><br />And that's the point: A lot of women who are "in love" with their husbands mysteriously fall "out of love" with their husbands when a better deal comes along. Not just "sometimes" -- a LOT. <br /><br /><i>But if she truly loves you, the odds of her "falling out of love," is unlikely.</i><br /><br />You're advocating for "Twue Wuv", here: the idea that Romantic Love is the highest ideal to which a woman should aspire, and when she feels the lack in her life then she is completely justified in changing her situation in pursuit of "Twue Wuv", regardless of the consequences. <br /><br />And the problem is . . . guys <i>believe </i>that shit.<br /><br />Really. When we say "I do", we're usually serious. And when the shit hits the fan, we're willing to grind our way through to better times. But when "Twue Wuv" is used as a rationalization for why his life should suddenly end as he knows it, then the idea of banking on taking her words at face value seems more and more foolhardy. <br /><br />Romantic love is a great concept, but it is a conceit of the female mind that it should be the entirety of the factors used to determine whether or not a relationship is permanent or not. Staking your life, your fortune, and your future children on whether or not she "truly" loves you is putting all of your chips on red when the majority of the wheel is black.Ian Ironwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09776355241706284910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-33467106706573063782012-04-02T11:15:14.428-04:002012-04-02T11:15:14.428-04:00I have a question: why does it seem like in the l...I have a question: why does it seem like in the later part of your post that you reject the idea of marrying for love? I know you say "well what if she falls out of love." But when a person marries for security....if they suddenly no longer need that security (receive an inheritance...or you marry the actress/artist/waitress/poet and her acting/art/writing/etc takes off and she's no longer in need of your money, she can leave. If she marries for security, as soon as that is fulfilled by something else, OR worse, as soon as you lose your job/hit financial hardship, she is out of there. But if she truly loves you, the odds of her "falling out of love," is unlikely. I would be more afraid to be w/ someone who was using me than someone who was in love with me.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-74922514476761624102012-03-31T22:49:16.473-04:002012-03-31T22:49:16.473-04:00This is a great post, thanks for writing it. Much ...This is a great post, thanks for writing it. Much appreciation for the link as well. Also, the vintage images drive the point home perfectly.Susan Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01984275712518966508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-47171976027195765892012-03-31T11:19:42.323-04:002012-03-31T11:19:42.323-04:00Outstanding post. This may be the best article I&#...Outstanding post. This may be the best article I've ever read on this subject. <br /><br />The next time a woman or white knight complains about men who don't want to "man up", I will point them to this article. (Probably won't do any good, but hey... it can't hurt to try.)Retrenchednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-18231976504381122392012-03-31T09:00:57.920-04:002012-03-31T09:00:57.920-04:00Thank you.Thank you.TGPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-74690218831263611342012-03-30T21:32:27.026-04:002012-03-30T21:32:27.026-04:00"Nigels are the epitome of the sexless submis..."Nigels are the epitome of the sexless submissive Beta male -- just the perfect kind of mate, according to feminist ideology. <br /><br />"Only feminists despise Nigels... Feminists may say they love Betas, but they're voting with their vaginas . . . and eventually some of those dudes, embittered by their rejection, find themselves in the Manosphere."<br /><br />Such a great summation- after acquiescing and contorting their behavior to whatever they think would align with what they're taught, when the attraction falls, they feel cheated out of their end of the contract. I think a core problem is the co-dependent beginnings of this- not trusting enough in the rightness of yourself and your own authentic response, and instead coming to believe you need to perform a certain way to be loved. Turns out, maybe we're better off being unapologetically honest from the start and listening less to the siren song of feminist ideologues.Robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-19438166481806067152012-03-30T17:04:49.517-04:002012-03-30T17:04:49.517-04:00There. Sorry. That's not really my baliwick....There. Sorry. That's not really my baliwick.Ian Ironwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09776355241706284910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-6435267458885470292012-03-30T17:01:37.407-04:002012-03-30T17:01:37.407-04:00My bad. Fixing . . .My bad. Fixing . . .Ian Ironwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09776355241706284910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-6199554617644202722012-03-30T15:02:18.986-04:002012-03-30T15:02:18.986-04:00Great article, Ian!Great article, Ian!Brendannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514791571109198162.post-6414453776312644902012-03-30T14:33:43.847-04:002012-03-30T14:33:43.847-04:00Is the Cher/Demi Moore switch a joke I'm not g...Is the Cher/Demi Moore switch a joke I'm not getting?Natty Shaferhttp://thelawyerwhohugs.com/noreply@blogger.com